City Council – March 27, 2019 – Part 1 of 2

City Council – March 27, 2019 – Part 1 of 2


If I can ask members of council to please
come to the council chambers. Members of council, if you can please take your seats we do have
quorum. Okay can you please rise for the national anthem? Okay please remain standing and during this time please remember the following persons
who have passed away. Danielle Moore and Nicholas Sylem. Thank you. We gratefully acknowledge
that the land we are meeting on is the traditional territory of many nations including the Mississaugas
of the credit, the Anishnabeg, the Chippewa, the Haudenosaunee and the Wendat peoples and
is now home to many diverse First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples. We also acknowledge
that Toronto is covered by treaty 13 with the Mississaugas of the credit for the benefit
of those connected to the internet the city clerk has posted all of the agenda materials
for today’s meeting. Members we have a presentation this morning to recognize fire services and
I would like to ask Chris Murray to come forward. So, good morning everyone. And thank you very
much speaker. I think from the first day that I joined the Toronto public service I talked
about trust and confidence which is the essence of what it is as a public servant. Today education
recognition of our Toronto fire services one of those moments where we can demonstrate
exactly how it is that we deliver trust and confidence to the residents of this community.
So on March 12th Toronto fire services was awarded accredited agency statuses making
Toronto the largest city in North America with an accredited fire service. This is no
easy task. There are about 256 kpis which are looked at to see whether or not they meet
the standard and have in place processes to continue to meet the standard. And so achieving
international accreditation is not the end state for the Toronto fire service, rather
it’s an international validation that tfs’s commitment to continuous quality improvement.
This is clear evidence that tfs is committed to providing effective fire protection services
and continuing to achieve the public trust and confidence. I think as the chief has said
to me our citizens and business owners know that when they go to bed at night or wake
up in the morning if there’s a call that you’re going to have a fire service that not only
will be there but will do exactly what they should do each and every time that their services
are required. I’d like to thank the personnel who have worked hard on this over the past
3 and a half years. While that list is far too long for me to mention I’d like to extend
a special thanks to the members of the cfai team who have worked very hard to get us to
this important milestone and they are here today including tony — John — Mike — and
Kevin — your hard work, dedication leadership are evidenced by this outstanding international
recognition as well. I’d also like to acknowledge the Toronto professional firefighters association
for their collaboration, support, commitment to this important work and of course, their
president frank and before the commission alongside the chief who has provided both
leadership and support along this journey. So please join me in congratulating the Toronto
fire service for this outstanding achievement and then we’ll have the mayor come and speak,
and provide them with the award. Thank you very much. [applause].
Speaker and members of council, thank you for introducing this most important subject
and I will reintroduce just because I think it’s always good to introduce them twice but
the people that are here today are chief — our chief, of course matt peg and James reed and
our deputy chief, Julie Conway and these as I understand it are the people that have been
the principal actors in making this happen. And I am just acknowledging really as a member
of council and mayor and on behalf of my colleagues on council what a significant accreditation
this is and I think the city manager covered it well when you hear that we’re the largest
city in North America to receive this accreditation I think you know this is not something that
ordinarily happens. The work that is done by our professional firefighters all the way
through the ranks in making sure that people are protected and kept safe in our city. I
think you know I make a point as a number of you do at visiting major fire scenes. In
the last ten days I’ve been at 2, one where it was in a single family home, a neighbourhood
and there the miracle was more related to property than to people although it was interesting
to note that with all the firefighters there and people living close by no one was injured
but it was a miracle that the one fire, the house that was on fire was confine today that.
And that none of the other houses caught on fire and everybody was kept safe. The other
one that was in a way a more remarkable experience for me was the one that was in the TCHC development
and the Deputy Mayor was there. What was interesting about that one was again, people were kept
safe, and there was some property damage done obviously to those units but the degree to
which the two of us the Deputy Mayor and myself were thanked through us to the fire service
and the TCHC staff for the way in which all this was handles where our residents were
well looked after and kept safe and arrangements were made when they were put out of their
housing for them to be looked after was quite remarkable. It started with the fact that
our firefighters did what they do 300,000 times every year which is to respond in a
professional competent sensitive manner and they do that as our emergency calls rise.
This has been a three-year journey. It was no — not without its rigors in terms of the
hundreds of different things and have to pass the test. And it is one of those things that
I think is always the best to have there were 11 people on the committee and this — this
accreditation was unanimously agreed upon by all 11 which again, is not something necessarily
to be expected. And I think it is just really evidence of just how well we are served here.
No surprise. Now, I noticed in my previous list I didn’t have on there because I got
that in a handwritten John — and Mike — were — I didn’t mention in my previous introductions
and I apologize for that but they were part of the team as well. You know what in the
end the credit for this goes to the chief and all 3,200 people who serve us in the Toronto
fire service. And I’d like to ask the group large as it may be right here we’re proud
to have them here today to come up and to have me gift to them on behalf of the City
Council something they earned which is this most accreditation that I think speaks volumes
about the professionalism and excellence of our fire service. No surprise to us but this
is objective confirmation please come up and receive this and have a photo taken. Thank
you. [applause]. Thank you. And congratulations. I will now
call for is a motion to confirm the minutes. — off motion on the minutes for the last
2 meetings. I do.
The City Council confirmed — held on February 26th, 2019, and the special meeting held on
March 7th, 2019 and the form supplied to the members.
All those in favour? Carried. I will now call upon the committee chairs to introduce their
reports. The chairs can speak about the reports for up to five minutes. Mayor Tory you have
a motion to introduce the Executive Committee report.
I do. Thank you speaker. I move — listed on the agenda of council be for consideration.
Today we’ll be considering first and foremost a report from the city manager including a
supplementary report which includes the most up to date information on the ongoing discussions
with the province about our transit system as well as his proposals for very significant
public information and consultation initiative. Pill referred to it earlier this morning as
a public engagement as well. I think it’s very important that we engage the public and
they understand the issues with respect to the discussion of the so-called uploading
as well as other changes that — that may well be advocated by the province for our
current transit plans. I have been clear throughout these discussions going back to the beginning
of this term and before that any decision on uploading which was widely and openly discussed,
but any decision on the so-called uploading as it effect affects our transit system needs
to be in the best interest of the people of Toronto and the city itself, the City Council,
the city administration must be consulted and included in those discussions. Of course
at a prior meeting we did authorize our city manager to go to a table that spent a lot
of time developing some terms of reference to have those discussions. That is the place
where our concerns are registered, our position which is that we believe the best result of
this would be to leave the transit system in the hands of the City of Toronto would
be put forward and where we would address concerns we have with some of the proposals
from the other side of the table as it were are being put forward. And I believe that
table is the right place to do that, and that we will see what emerges from that process.
I will just put on the record again as I did earlier this morning as I’ve done many, many
times, that if the result that have process is one that is unsatisfactory to the City
of Toronto and the people of Toronto and the council and its mayor I will have no hesitation
what to ever in opposing it as not being in the best interest of the City of Toronto.
I think we owe it to ourselves to be at that table, to put forward our views as strongly
as we can and to see if we can’t come out with a resolution which in the end is mostly
in the eyes of the people going to be about as getting as much transit built as soon as
possible with as much financial support from other governments as we can possibly achieve.
So what we have before us today speaker, is our — are 2 reports with the latest information
from the city manager and they provide some insight into the provinces position for transit
projects. Some of the content that came was a revelation to all of us when it came literally
on Monday morning at 9:00. I heard the minister of transportation himself on radio this morning
saying that that table that exists with the terms of reference that were agreed upon by
the province of Ontario and our city manager as our representative there he said everything
was negotiable. So I’m assuming that that is the case and a powerful reason in and of
itself among others why we should be remaining at that table and that is obviously what the
city manager’s report refers to. He makes reference there and I won’t quote him again
as I did earlier this morning in saying that the only place or best place is that you can
have discussions with the province of Ontario where we would discuss these matters. You
know I would point out something that I know members of council know very well which is
that every single one of the transit projects require a number of provincial approvals and
most if not all require a significant degree of provincial financial participation. So
the notion that somehow we can sort of go it alone regrettably in some ways but the
reality is that the notion we can go it alone is not something that is within any scope
of reality that I think anybody would confront so I think the top of mind concern for us
and we didn’t know about this letter at the time the Executive Committee met would be
the notion of delay for the projects. We have many concerns, of course about the principle
of uploading itself which is to be discussed at this table now added to that are the proposed
changes and the impact in particular they would have if implemented on delaying the
building of transit in the City of Toronto which is so needed. That is why I continue
to believe and will have a chance to dialogue with the city manager on this and with each
other today that the best way to represent the city’s interest is to continue to be at
the table with the province and the report asks you to approval staff recommendations
which say yes, of course stay at the table, but also accompany that now with not only
a robust public information campaign but the resources necessary to help the city manager
to do his job. So I look forward to that discussion today which is really the principal item on
the report coming from meeting number 3 of the Executive Committee. Thank you.
I thank you. Councillor Holyday would you introduce the Audit Committee report.
Thank you. The report for meeting 1 of the Audit Committee be presented for consideration.
And I’ll just acknowledge they were 7 reports on the agenda of the Audit Committee. One
of them was external quality review of the auditor — reference points and I would like
to congratulate the auditor on successfully passing that and being acknowledged as a great
centre of excellence. And also the auditor general’s office being accredited as a cpa
training office in 2018. There are 6 additional reports and I’ll draw council’s attention
to those, namely one on demonstrating the value of the auditor general’s office. I think
the committee enjoyed this report and quite proud of the performance of the auditor over
the last year and she acknowledged that there were $300 million in savings I’ll say that
again, $300 million in savings over five years. Those are verified savings as part of the
auditor’s process she will go back and work with management to look at the outcomes of
the audits and ensure that these savings are being achieved and they quantifies them in
the reports. I’d also like to acknowledge several follow-up reports on outstanding audit
items. Member of council will be familiar with a number of the audits that we’ve put
through over the years. The auditor does go back to the individual divisions and work
with those divisions to look at the status of the findings. I think the Audit Committee
took an interest in the status of many of these reports and the reporting back and asked
the auditor to come back and highlight and focus on some of the outstanding audits. And
also of course take a moment to acknowledge the work of city’s management staff in implementing
these audits. You can see with the report on the auditor’s annual report into the committee
and with the outstanding reports just a sampling of the amount of work and there’s no surprise
that we’re seeing millions of dollars in savings. The last would be about the fraud and waste
hotline. Although some of the findings and outcomes of the work around fraud and waste
does not necessarily quantifiable in a dollar value it is extremely important for the integrity
of the public service and also people’s perception in the integrity of our services here. And
great work there on that. We’ve seen things such as the auditor’s work on fire safety
in our buildings and we talked about that at council. And I believe that we are in a
safer place because of that audit and I believe that the public feels that as well. So if
you have any questions about any of the items on the audit agenda please you’re welcome
to approach me or any members of the committee or speak to the auditor general herself and
also a congratulations to the auditor general’s team on all of the achievements that they’ve
achieved over the year. Thank you. I thank you. Councillor Cressy would you introduce
the Board of Health report? Thank you, speaker. First of all the report
for meeting 3 of the Board of Health listed on the agenda be presented for consideration
and I’ll move that. Just a few brief comments. This was the first meeting of our new board
and the first of mine in the chair. We’ve covered a range of issues, 4 in particular.
The first is as it relates to the overdose crisis. I should note for members of this
chamber, that overdose is now the leading cause of death of young people in our province
and our city. And the number of deaths despite our best intentions right across the country
are rising. And the evidence has shown that these deaths are preventable that when we
approach it from a treatment prevention and enforcement lens we can prevent these deaths.
So in Toronto we have the overdose action plan and we recognize that while we’re doing
a great deal of amount in our city the board considered 2 items, one was an indigenous
layer or our overdose action plan and the second was to expand the opioid substitution
treatment options that are available. So both on a prevention, harm reduction and treatment
level. The second item I would flag which it’s here
in front of us at council as it relates to heat relief it’s not a topic it gets the attention
it deserves. Is we have rising temperatures around those rising temperatures. And so we
have more than 300 buildings in the City of Toronto that do not have air-conditioning
in each and every one of your wards and those shoulder seasons from September 15th to June
the 1stst there is an assumption that the heat has to be turned on in all of those buildings.
It does not. So you have residents of yours in buildings in an April when it’s 33 degrees
Celsius in an apartment unit where the windows are closed and the heat is turned on. It can
be over 40 degrees and it is painful and can be deadly. So there are a range of improvements
and pieces of work that underway around cooling spaces, changes to our building codes and
municipal codes related to the window protections but also communications and beefed up communication
strategy to those property owners and landlords. So that work is going to be on the agenda
yet again at the Board of Health. I want to thank Councillor — the final 2 items very
briefly that we dealt with one is cannabis edibles. There will be somebody else talking
about it gummy bears in cannabis causes a head line. We know that legalization is long
overdo. We know in the fall the federal government will confirm the legalization for edibles.
The Board of Health proposed a framework to treat edibles just like we do with tobacco
that is to reduce the harm. So that it’s not appealing to kids. So Madam Speaker, those
were the items that we dealt with at our committee and I present them here for council’s consideration.
Thank you. Deputy Mayor you have a motion to introduce
the civic appointments admit tee report. Yes, the report for meeting 4 of the Civic
Appointments Committee listed on the agenda for council’s consideration.
Thank you. Councillor Thompson off motion. I do. Good morning, speaker. That the report
for meeting 2 of economic and community development committee listed on the agenda for council
be presented for consideration. I would just like to briefly highlight 3 specific items
on the agenda speaker. The first one is EC2.1 the appointment of the city’s poet — I’d
like to first of all thank Ann Michaels for her great work here as the — and to welcome
Mr. Al — who hopefully council will confirm today as the new poet laurette going forward.
Additionally item EC2.3 which is the bylaw and fees for sidewalk cafes and also marketing
display for the last 21 years this city has had essentially although we’re one city, a
bylaw that has been not uniformed and in fact has been of great challenge to many of the
businesses in the city with respect to the cost for fees, the licensing and so on. It
has not been working well. It has had a number of challenges for residents as well in terms
of navigating our sidewalks. And I want to thank the staff for bringing this report forward
because this report has taken essentially five years. There’s been a tremendous amount
of public participation and so on at committee a week or so ago, a large number of members
of the — and others who came in to talk in support of this report. The talk — to talk
about the impact that the lack of this harmonized bylaws as well as businesses that has come
forward seeking more uniform might tee and consistency as well as speaker, most of this
bylaw currently now affects the downtown core the suburban areas and so on have not actually
had the ability to really participate in this particular process. So in essence now this
uniformity will in fact, reach out into the suburban areas. And finally speaker I want
to highlight four members of council as it relates to the homelessness issue in this
city. The item c — ed doctor 2.10 which is the implementation of reaching homes. It’s
a — Canadian government homeless strategy that seeks to allows for the papers and this
report talks about an agreement with respect to Shelter Support and Housing Administration
to enter into agreement with employment and social development Canada so that resources
can be brought into to help us with respect to the varying challenge that is we have on
a daily basis here in the City of Toronto. Particularly though I want to — I wanted
to highlight for members recommendation number 7 with respect to focusing on utilizing a
shelter and support and housing administration to develop an indigenous plan for funding
extreme in partnership with the local indigenous communities. And I think this is extremely
important. This is an area where we have a tremendous amount of challenge. Resources
are being applied to obviously aid and assist this important area. Those are all the points
I wanted to make this morning on these particular issues, Madam Speaker, thank you.
I thank you. Counsel Ainslie off motion? I do. The report for meeting number 2 of the
general government and licensing committee listed on the agenda for council be presented
for consideration. Thank you. Councillor Pasternak off motion
to introduce infrastructure and environment committee report.
Thank you, thank you Madam Speaker. The report for meeting 2 listed on the agenda of council
be presented for consideration. I would just bring your attention to the street closures
listed in the agenda. Thank you very much. I thank you. Councillor Bailão you have a
motion to introduce the planning and housing committee report.
The report for meeting 3 of the planning and housing committee listed on the agenda of
council be presented for consideration. Thank you. Councillor Grimes off motion to
introduce the Councillor report. Yes, I do. Good morning. That the report for
meeting 4 listed on the agenda of council be presented for consideration.
I thank you. Councillor Pasternak you have a motion to
introduce the North York Community Council report.
Yes, I do. Listed on the agenda of council be presented for consideration.
Thank you. You have a motion to introduce the community council report.
Yes. That the report for meeting 4 of the community council listed on the agenda be
apprehend for consideration thank you. Councillor Perks you have a motion to introduce the Toronto
and East York report. Good morning, speaker. I move that the report
of meeting 4 of the Toronto East York Community Council be presented for consideration.
Thank you. Councillor Ford you have a motion to introduce the new business from city officials.
Yes. Thank you Madam Speaker. Good morning everyone. That new business from state officials
listed on the agenda of council be presented for consideration thank you. All those in
favour of the motions recorded vote? Deputy Mayor Minnan-Wong, please.
I the motion to introduce the reports carries unanimously 23 in favour.
Thank you. Members of council before I ask for declared interest I wish to remind you
again about the requirement to make both a verbal and written declaration of interest
at the meeting. I encourage members to bring their completed forms to meetings to hand
to the clerk. If you need a blank form staff have copies available. Are there any declarations
of interest please put your name up requests to question staff. Councillor Bradford.
Thanks very much. I’d like to declare a conflict on item TE4.44. My wife is planner on this
file. I okay okay. Thank you. What’s the nature
of your — the nature of my interest is as follows: My wife is a planner on the file.
Okay. Thank you. Are there any further declarations? No. Members, I would now review the order
paper. The mayor — yes, Councillor Ainslie. I just want to make a quick announcement.
I know the mayor will be interested in this. I would like to acknowledge on this day in
1834 that our first mayor assumed office so I thought the mayor and everybody would be
interested in that and just wanted to remind everybody about this day. Thank you.
Member Councillor Cressy. Just on a point of personal privilege rage
privilege to follow-up with that the mayor whose anniversary we’re celebrating today
has a portrait. Councillor Colle.
Could can I mention that the historic tavern where the rebel mayor led the rebellion is
now going to be restored and made into a historic site at the corner of Montgomery avenue and
Yonge Street the mayor has designated item 3.1 headed engagement
with the province on Toronto transit system first quarter 2019 status report, and is key
matter for this meeting. That item will be our first item of business today. I propose
that item — 3.12 subway ensuring know the facts be considered with the mayor’s key item.
Mayor Tory do you consent to the joining of the site whiskey matter?
Yes, I do speaker. Thank you thank you. Members there are a number of other related items
on the agenda that I also propose be considered together. I 2.5 suspension of general contractors
corporation with items ia 2.6 litigation arising from contract mcp 13, 18 ws for the pumping
station power generator’s upgrade and 2.7 non-competitive contract to plan group and
purchase order amendment to cole engineering group limited for the completion of the pumping
station power generators upgrade. And finally item cc 5.10 and cc 5.11 regarding 280, 290
Jarvis street and 19, 193 mutual street official plan amendment and zoning amendment application
requests for direction and alterations to a designated heritage property. And amendment
of a designating bylaw intention to designate under section 29 of the Ontario heritage act
authority to enter into a heritage easement agreement. Notices of motion are scheduled
to be dealt with at 2:00 p.m. Tomorrow only if the mayor’s key item is completed. I propose
that City Council set a time for closed session required later in the meeting.
I sorry go back to page 7. Okay. I missed a page. Do we have any petitions?
Sorry, okay. Councillor Matlow, a petition? Yes. Good morning Madam Speaker, members of
council. I submit this petition from 3,868 signatories for the consideration of council,
and it’s related to EX3.12 save our subway ensuring know the facts and I’m going to read
out the content of the decision. So these are the signatory pres. And the position reads
as this ford says he’s taking Toronto subways so he can get new transit built however nothing
is stopping the province from building transit in Toronto now. Uploading the existing subway
does not affect the ford government’s ability to construct and own new lines or extensions.
In fact, the province is currently building and will own the cross town more over, it
was premiere ford himself who helped killed the plan in 2010, a move that — for rapid
transit lines which were fully funded by the province and have caused years of delays to
get transit built for people who need it. Doug Ford’s plan isn’t really about improving
transit in Toronto. He should be helping Toronto invest in fact based transit plans such as
the relief subway line and a network. Instead his politics based plan is to sell off our
subway lands and rights while wasting billions of dollars. With Toronto subway ford would
gain control of lucrative air rights above stations and adjacent properties owned and
paid for by Torontonians. And work with city planners and communities to build much needed
public — for Toronto residents including affordable housing child care, and to have
a partner in Queens Park that invests in Toronto rather than one that sells the value our subway
to spend elsewhere and I certainly support the signatories of this position. Thank you.
Are there any further petitions? All in favour of receiving the petitions recorded vote.
I will now go through the items listed on the order papers. Time specific after I go
through the items for additional holds. Once been approved by council any change will need
a two-thirds vote. Page 3. Page 3 Councillor Perks.
Thank you, speaker, administrative amendments to reserve fund accounts. EX3.5.
Councillor. I’m sorry, madam I changed my mind okay.
I would like to hold EX3.11, 2019 Toronto zoo — experience.
Councillor Wong-Tam. Yes, thank you very much Madam Speaker. I
don’t know if I need to hold this but I could probably dispense it with an amendment it’s
EX3.7 delegation for authority for temporary liquor licenses I have an amendment I can
put on the screen. It is essentially to go ahead with the staff recommendations but just
to report back in one year with an evaluation framework.
Sure not a problem. Thank you. Island hold that.
Okay. So all of page 3 has been held. Point of order Councillor Thompson.
Thank you. At the Executive Committee we had some information to come forward with EX3.8,
I don’t see that information here in the supplementary material or any other place. I’m just wondering
if that information is coming forward because it will be helpful to me in either forming
the need to ask questions or to release that item.
Okay. We’ll look into it. Thank you.
Thank you. Councillor Bailão.
On page 3 I might be able to release I’d just like a recorded vote on item 3.6 okay on page
3 EX3.6 recorded vote. Councillor Crawford, please. Thank you.
The item carries unanimously 24 in favour thank you. Page 4. Page 5. Councillor Colle
if you want to speak tough press the button. On page 5 Councillor Carroll.
Sorry Madam Speaker page 4 went by very quickly. It was page 4 okay.
Top of the page audit 1.4 demonstrating the value of the auditor general’s office.
All right. Councillor Colle on page 5. Yes, I’d like to hold EC2.8. Business improvement
area yes 2019 operating budgets report 2 okay. Thank you. Councillor Bailão.
Madam Speaker EC2.7 I have an amendment and if you so wish I would be able to release
this item with that small amendment does the staff have the amendment?
Yep okay. If we could put the amendment on the screen. This on page 5 EC2.7. Okay it’s
on the screen. All in favour? Carried. Item is amended all in favour? Carried.
Page 6. Councillor Holyday. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I’d like to — IE2.2
— closure heart and stroke foundation of Ontario and also IE2.3 eastbound fg expressway
and parkway closures. Thank you thank you. Councillor Ford.
Madam Speaker can I get a recorded vote on 4.5 intention to enter part 5 section 29 the
Ontario heritage act 58 Wheatfield road? What is the recommendation, to designate okay.
Bottom of the page EY4.5 Councillor Ford wants a recorded vote.
The item carries 23-1 page 7. Councillor Cressy page 7 sorry, speaker, page 6. I would just
ask for a recorded vote and I can release on page 6 item PH3.2 zoning provisions for
municipal shelters okay. I’ll continue to hold it all right. Page 8.
Councillor Fletcher page 8 yes, I’d like to — I could hold it or simply ask for a recorded
vote on TE4.16 intention to designate under part 4 section 29 of the Ontario heritage
act. Would you like a recorded vote? Okay. Recorded
vote. The item is adopted 23-1.
Page 9 oh — Councillor Holyday you had page 8 I did Madam Speaker I just wanted a recorded
vote. Okay. TE4.21 Councillor Holyday’s asked for
a recorded vote. Application to remove a private tree on 21
Queensdale avenue. The item carries 21-3 page 9. Councillor Wong-Tam.
Yes, thank you very much Madam Speaker. I’d like to hold cc 5.2 Ontario report Toronto
community housing — at risk transfer process for attendance.
[off mic] yes that’s because the screen [off mic] let’s — okay we’re on page 9. If we
can clear the screen, please so this allows Councillor Fletcher to put their name up.
And Councillor Filion was next. You want to put your name — okay Councillor Fletcher
and Councillor Filion if you can put your name up there Councillor Wong-Tam beat me
to the punch there I’m going to hold 5.1 and 5.5.
Councillor Filion. I can release cc 5.3.
I got questions okay. You hold it okay. Yeah, I’ll hold it you’ll hold it. Okay. Page 10.
Councillor Wong-Tam. Yes. Thank you very much Madam Speaker. This
is regarding cc 5.10 as well as cc 5.11. I could probably move a motion and have the
item dealt with right now rather than hold it. There’s confidential staff reports I see
the clerks are nodding. Their confidential staff report regarding an Ontario Municipal
Board — sorry hold on let’s do one at a time sure does the staff have the motion? Okay.
So your — the two of them together. Can you put the motion on the screen, please?
Okay. Thank you very much. This is a transmittal directly from the Toronto Preservation Board
and simply recommended the recommendations of the staff and I’m moving the recommendations
from the preservation board as well as the recommendations of the city slice or okay.
All in favour of the amendment? Carried. Item is amended all in favored carried. And item
10. Just adopt cc 5.10 all in favour? Carried. Okay. So that’s it. Page ten.
Now, we’ll — Councillor Ford. Yes, Madam Speaker. I’d just like to ask council’s
indulgence to reopen 4.16 intention under part 5 section 29 of the Ontario heritage
act for the — avenue I’d just like to remain consistent on this and I made a mistake I’ll
move to reopen I’m sorry. We’re being consistent.
I’m sorry. What item? What item is it? 4.16 the hern okay. To reopen all in favour? Carried.
Now, you want a recorded vote? Yes, please, thank you very much.
A recorded vote. The item is adopted 22-2.
Thank you. I will now consider requests 230 make items urgent and time specific. Councillor
Layton. Z yeah thank you very much my request was
going to be withdraw an item authorization to release section 37 funds. My understanding
is the community group has already raised the funds and don’t need them any more.
What number? Page 12 mm 5.10 authorization to release — you
want to withdraw that? Yes, thank you that’s page 12 mm 5.10 Councillor
Layton is asking to withdraw. All in favour? Carried.
Councillor Holyday. Thank you Madam Speaker. I request council’s
indulgence to time specific on page 6 item PH3.1 as a right zoning for secondary suites
I’d like to consider that as the first item immediately following notices of motion.
Okay. So that’s PH3.1, correct? Correct? Yes, thank you Madam Speaker okay so following
member’s motions tomorrow yes, thank you, Madam Speaker okay motion by Councillor Holyday
on PH3.1 that we deal with the item following the members’s motions tomorrow. All in favour?
Carried. Councillor Filion I would like to make time specific cc 5.4 — what page?
Page 9 office of the integrity commissioner annual report. I was going to pick the same
time slot as Councillor Holyday so I’ll make it immediately following that item.
Okay. All in favour? Carried. Councillor Ainslie yes, Madam Speaker. On the first page EX3.112019
Toronto zoo experience could I make this the first item tomorrow morning after we — the
agenda I’m asking this so staff has an idea what time they can get here yeah, well, you’ve
held the item down you want staff to be here to ask questions?
Yes. Okay first item tomorrow morning. All in favour?
Carried. While we’re running out of time Councillor Wong-Tam thank you very much Madam Speaker.
I’d like to time cc 5.1 what page? Sorry. It’s page 9. Cc 5.1, 5.2 both items
if I can time that as the third item on the second day after the members’s motion thank
you. All in favour? Carried.
Councillor Fletcher thank you. Councillor Carroll Madam Speaker, I don’t
know if you want to treat it as time specific but on page 4 ca 4.1, I’ve had an opportunity
to review some of the information that is confidential that I will want to discuss so
you will have to find time for confidential. On page 4 the Audit Committee, the audit?
No, ca the civic appointments 4.1 I will want to discuss some of the private information
that I’ve seen. We’ll find the time thanks if we have any
time. I think we should start working on Friday now.
Friday. [off mic] pardon?
[off mic] what I’m saying is that Councillor Carroll said she wants to make that time specific
and we do all the items at a later time and we go in camera or all the in camera items
— no, no, no any more time specifics will probably be going to Friday Madam Speaker
just on a mild point accurately reflect into request, my request I was simply indicating
that I will need to go into camera I’ll leave when you want to do that up to your own good
office yeah thank you and I did indicate when I first started that we will deal with the
in camera items later today correct thank you thank you.
All those in favour of adopting the order paper? Councillor Perks [off mic] now, that
we don’t schedule an in camera for 6:00 any more I guess I need to notify you that I need
to go in camera on ca 4.1 the appointment of members — no, sorry. 4.2 appointment of
a public member to the Toronto Public Library board.
Okay. Yeah, that’s — that’s a confidential. All of them are — they have — they’ve been
held down and confidential so we’ll have to go in camera in all of them. Yeah.
My microphone speaker yeah all those in favour of adopting the order paper? And items not
held recorded vote. Councillors Layton and Cressy, please Councillor
Filion, Councillor Perks, Councillor Pasternak, please. The motion to adopt the order paper
and items not held carries unanimously 24 in favour members of council I want to stress
the importance of preparing your motions in advance the clerk staff are here to help you
prepare your motions in particular if you intend to move a motion during the release
of holds I will insist that your motion be prepared in advance and given to the clerk.
If you do not have your motion ready I will not recognize you. I’m reminding members that
you must state your motion first before you speak to it. Members of City Council follows
the routine for processing of adding any motions without notice during the meeting. Please
remember that a motion without notice must include a reason for urgency. If you have
an urgent motion you wish to bring forward at this meeting please give your motion to
the city clerk staff they will prepare the necessary procedure motion for my review along
with your motions. The chair must agree the motion is urgent before you can see — introduced
at this meeting. It will require 18 votes to add a motion — motions added to the agenda
in this way are not subject to a vote. I would be reviewing all motions carefully and advise
council after each recess which motions need a motion tab to the agenda.
We will now go to the mayor’s key item EX3.1, and EX3.12. So questions to staff Councillor
Robinson thank you very much Madam Speaker. To the city manager clearly as City Council
we are well aware that residents want action on transit in this city. So what we have before
us now as of last night how does this impact transit expansion in our city does it accelerate
it, does it delay it can you give us a motherhood answer on that what the speaker will provide
you for the first time and a number of months where we’ve been asking for specifics in writing
we’ve been giving those specifics so it’s — that you approve and recommend that we
continue having a membership at that we go through and understand better how those items
can be implemented. So in terms of what does it do in terms of time lines, certainly this
is something that we want to get into in specifics in our next report which is coming to Executive
Committee on the 9th, but however, certainly if I look at — adding stations does change
our schedule, how much I can’t tell you exactly. It really depends on the nature of the design
items that they have in mind. So but, again, the purposes of our table was to talk about
specifics, and to negotiate how those specifics can be implemented, recognizing that we need
to do this as well engaging our community in some meaningful way okay. Thank you very
much. To tt — does this change the scope impact design, my understanding and you can
correct me if I’m wrong, it takes 2 years to design a station, could you just give us
a little bit of input on that, those questions? Yeah through the chair, yeah, when — it really
depends 2 stops until we understand that it’s very difficult to actually put a time scale
against it. So we need to sit down with the province and defined the scope. And once we
define the scope then we can look at the impact okay. And then I don’t know who this should
be directed to, this question, but I guess I’m always concerned about costs and the money
that’s been invested to date on design and the work that we’ve done as a city and as
we’ve been charging ahead particularly on the relief line accelerating that work by
2 years maybe 3, how are we impacted face cally related to costs?
So if I can I’ll start and if rick wants to add of course do that, so through the speaker,
certainly we’d been advancing well into detailed design the line 2 extension seeing now whether
this that the province has in mind will affect as I think our — will affect the design that
we’ve been evolving. So, again, there are considerable dollars that have been sunk into
that design as you can imagine going from a concept to something that’s ready for market
requires a lot of investment of energy and money. So there certainly will be an affect
on the money that we have spent because it does represent and again, I want to be careful
because I don’t know the specifics at this point in time but it will represent a need
for us to take a step back and revisit all the work that we’ve done to it this moment
in time. Okay just as a big advocate of the relief
line for many years I wonder how you interpret the definition or the language around that
freestanding and the reference to state-of-the-art technology et cetera? Can you expand on that
at all for us? Sure as you well know we’ve been engaged with
metro links for some time in terms of the evolution of that design. I nut tell you that
the idea that we’re announcing in writing was — was communicated to us, I believe in
February, February 14th, in terms of specifics, what does this new approach mean? We’re not
certain at all on that. We want to see what the concept is. I just want to add though
if I can and on the 9th of March we did have a meeting where we presented all of the transit
works that we are engaged in at the City of Toronto not just the subway works so that
there was a clear understanding by our counterparts as to the status of all that works and where
they are in design and where in schedule. That’s the kind of information we presented
on the 9th so that they had a good idea of how we’re evolving things and then that’s
what we want to bring back to you in about a week’s time in some detail as to just exactly
what the status of our transit expansion work and revisit #12k3w4r5igs work amounts to then
I would ask — my understanding in the media this morning the minister talked about this,
is that your impression or you’re more involved than anybody what’s your take on that comment?
I take it as for what it exactly it is. I mean, this is the whole purpose of our table
is to understand each other’s positions if you will, and to try and find a way in which
to move forward as quickly as we can with the needed investments in transit and expansion
as well as doing the important work that we have to do to kind of maintain or existing
system. So I look forward to details as we’ve been
sharing with the province what it is specifically they have in mind. So that way we’ll be better
informed to come back here and tell you what the consequences are okay. Thank you for your
answers thank you. Councillor Ford, questions? Thank you very much Madam Speaker. And I’d
like to start off with my questions to the city manager. Just you know, just even in
the last 24 hours we’ve heard the line of comments in the media, on social media, really
more on the opposing side of this I guess supplementary report. Would you consider your
discussions to date with the province of Ontario to be in bad faith?
Through the speaker, no. Should Torontonians be terribly alarmed by
discussions that are currently taking place with the province in your opinion?
Terribly alarmed, I think to the extent that they don’t know all the details and so they
want to understand the badly needed investments, how they’re going to be made, what impact
that will have on them. To be honest we wake every day and our viewpoint to those riders
that experience the significant congestion that the — they see right now on the system
and they want to know how we’re going to resolve that and they want to know as well how we’re
going to expand the transit network in order to accommodate the million people that are
going to be here in 20 years. So we’re looking at both obviously. Alarmed only to the set
that I’m sure they would like to know more detail and they want to hear from us to how
is it it’s going to benefit them and how it affects their day-to-day life and thank you
for your answer Mr. City manager on that. I’d like to elaborate. We want to know who
are. How do we get to that? Would the best approach be throwing your hands up and walking
away and trying to fight the province, or would it be a constructive dialogue and working
with the province of Ontario? What would your recommendation be?
Well, my answer to your question is the answer I would give you know as a city manager whether
I was here I was in Hamilton, anywhere else. I’m here to provide you the best advice possible
on each and every item that comes across my table. So I take a very objective view of
the matter. At the end of the day all I know is that there’s badly needed transit investments
that need to occur. I say that as not just as a city manager but as someone that is passionate
about how we build these. So I am, you know, again, these things are typically negotiated.
I’ve been involved in a lot of different infrastructure projects over my years. And ideas get he is
expressed and people sit at a table and work through those ideas to try and make sure they’re
done as effectively as possible with the whether or not came true from — and the government,
is there anything in that letter and of course more discussions have to be happened, or have
to happen, but is there anything that’s being taken away in these — in their priorities,
or has City Council deemed these projects as priorities? From what I take, I’m going
to let you answer, is there actually adding infrastructure, is that not correct?
Z well through the speaker, certainly making clear what their interests are and what they’re
prepared to invest in. That’s something we’ve been asking for in writing. So we — we certainly
have that. But, again I come back to — I want to say this in terms of the letter we
received on Friday, of course we reviewed it and over the weekend staff did go through
each of the items in those letters — in that letter, sorry — which did result in a meeting
with Michael lindsey and the deputy of transportation on Monday at 5:00. We went through some of
the concerns we had and the tones which I think is what triggered the subsequent letter
that came yesterday. You know, if I take issue with anything right now in terms of what it
is that you have in front of you is the comment that was made about the escalating costs of
and they combined both project so we do still to this point in time feel it’s necessary
to give you some clarity on that and if you wish I’d be happy to do that in concert with
rick leary I have one more question left, I would like to bring it local into the city’s
northwest and actually I could mention in both of these, but were staff not directed
by City Council to look at tunnelling as an option? So that’s never been off the table,
and has staff ever looked at a 3 stop subway that was your last question thank you very
much I’m going to give you a very good answer. I’m going to turn to my left over here Karen
if you could give the details on that, please yes, tunnelled options have been looked at
extensively as part of ongoing work. And several reports have actually been to council that
suggested that an LRT is a preferred solution there’s further analysis that was done on
this again and is actually coming forward to council on April 16th and will be public
next week. Thank you. Councillor Ainslie thank you, Madam
Speaker. Through you to the city manager I’m trying to understand, so the letter specifically
mentions four projects as Councillor from eastern — I’m trying to understand where
the east LRT project fits into all of this? So through the speaker, that was clearly presented
on March 9th when we had our meeting with both Michael Lindsey and metro links and mto.
It was important for us to layout all the projects understanding importance of all the
projects where they are in terms of design where they are in terms of schedule. So that
information was clearly provided to them. We will be documenting that in the report
that Karen just mentioned that’s coming out and will be in front of executive on the 9th.
So they have that information. Certainly it’s important to us, but right now the discussion
or the focus of the provincial government is on subways.
Was there any response to them when he presented that information? It was just we’ll look at
it and get back to you? Because I am concerned over so the funding that structured now for
the extension of the subway and the east LRT as most people know it’s one pot of money,
a good chunk of it $1.9 billion I believe you can correct me if I’m wrong index to inflation
that we’re expecting from the province. I’m quite concerned we’re going to see subway
gets uploaded they take that money and we’re back to the drawing board after a lot of wor?
Well, I think that was in part the reason why we wanted to show them the entire picture
so that they had an appreciation of our — why it is that when we wake up every day we’re
focused on not just subways and the relief of the congestion that we see here today but
also kind of those — those transit investments that allows us to grow the city in a manner
in which we want. That information I think it was noted and I think the first letter
that they sent to us on Friday that it was quite informative whether or not it becomes
a conversation further on down the road I’m not going to speculate. But right now as you
can see from their letters that they’re very much focused on sub ways and what that means
from a funding standpoint is certainly something that we’re wanting to talk to them about.
So we have federal funding in the form of 4.9 billion some of which has already been
marked. We want to make sure that you know the City of Toronto and the province of Ontario
can somehow get on a page where you know the funding priorities aren’t just one sided okay.
And my next question I wanted to ask about along the subway extension and the LRT a lot
of work has been done today we’ve had lots of meetings, you know, I assume on your list
of things to be discussed is cost recovery of what the city spent so far on those projects
that would be a very logical thing for to us talk about excellent. And the next question
was around similar was around the gas tax. Last year provincially and federally we got
$300 million I believe in gas tax money. Through these projects being done if they end up getting
uploaded are we going to see an offset for that money or — if I can through the speaker
we have not had any kind of discussions about revenue sources. If they’re impacted and what
can be done to mitigate those impacts. So but you know, just so as you know it’s certainly
on our radar. It’s something that you know, we would want to have a discussion with and
not just gas tax. I mean, there’s other revenue source that is we want to be very clear on.
And obviously get in writing and have a firm commitment from the province as to how they
see moving forward and whether or not it in fact, affects those kinds of revenues okay
then just my last question. I don’t know if it gets answered by you or not. It was more
about add on costs and one of the — one of the examples that I want to use in the one
letter where it talks about the extension there’s a vague reference to the term north
of the town centre. I know there’s some issues around our subway fleet and how we’re going
to manage that. When those costs come up is that — or lack of a better word I’m going
to use add-on and where that would get dealt with in the negotiations.
Through the speaker I think you did a great job of summarizing the exact issues that we
need to address at our table and get some firm answers in terms of what does this do
to budgets, what does this do to moneys that we’ve already sunk, what does this do to our
time line? That’s exactly why the table was set okay. Thank you thank you, Madam Speaker.
Through the speaker to the city manager, how long have we been in the planning stages of
the relief line now? I’m going to ask one of our staff here to
give you — Karen or James either way or through the speaker 2014.
2014. So four, five years now. To the city manager, it was concerning when we saw the
letter come out that said the costs have doubled because that’s — that was new information,
of course upper happens not factually correct information but that was news to everybody
here at council. Can you confirm whether or not the costs of the relief line have doubled?
Well, again I think the way that the actual statement was structured it combined both
extension and the relief line. And so we have those — those are 2 very different projects
one is well advanced in design and the other one is in early design if you will. So regrettably
they said it the way they said it. It’s the one issue we have not the letter we received
on Friday but the letter we received yesterday. So I’m going to actually turn it over to the
TTC to tell you about the numbers as to where we’re at and why we have some concerns with
that blanket statement. We’ve provided and got feedback on our design.
We’ve taken the estimate at that point in time we’ve done the estimate in house we’ve
actually went to third party to commercially international commercially recognize consulting
to get the cost and schedule verified. That will then be released next week as part of
our report and go to council in April of this year. The cost — we actually stated previously
in March 2017, when you take the base cost the schedule and the cost risk analysis into
consideration. So we’ve advanced 30% design we have a much
more full some cost estimate of line 2 extension it was 3.34 billion roughly previously and
it’s — so we’re not going to see a number next week that’s going to come back double
like at 6 billion if you actually go back to the council report in March 2017, there
was a base cost and a budget was there for 3.56 billion also options for schedule risk
analysis and public work when you total them up there was about 3.9 billion okay. Thank
you. To the city manager, the March 22nd letter it was very ambiguous around the status of
the relief line that was course concerning. They say that they want to see the planning
and design work for the subway extension to progress in parallel with the relief line
that might be their priority but that’s not our priority. The re line is past the stage.
Do you have any indication of it bringing the relief line and the Yonge subway extension
parallel would mean slowing down the relief line?
I mean, they’re really at two different stages of design. I think if I can in terms of your
question, I mean we’ve been very clear about the — if there’s an order to these projects
that the Yonge extension would not be a first priority and for the simple reason that you
have significant congestion in the system as we speak. So we have been very clear about
all the projects that help to remedy the congestion should really be the participate. So relief
line to us along with Yonge station along with smart track, along with Scarborough if
you were to look at the collection of those projects those are the ones that will give
us some opportunity if you will to address some of the congestion issues that we think
are important. I want to be clear that the extension should be a second ordered pie or
tee. We’re working on both those projects right now. If we’re allowed to continue what
we’re doing I can’t see that there would be an impact although I’m happy to be wrong and
corrected by any member of staff? So in a sense said another way City Council’s
priority is not advancing projects that will add to the congestion first it’s actually
advancing projects that will alleviate the congestion like the relief fund correct last
question the sum tear report that you released yesterday identified a number of errors on
the March 22nd including an overstateding of the cost on our proposed projects has the
province given you any explanation why the basic errors were made on their end that was
your last question. Again, you know, I don’t want to split words
here but these are clarifications that we were asking for. And so you know, we want
to go back want to get back to the table and, again, you know, go through the — all the
work that’s been done on the relief line, on Scarborough and review with them the numbers
where they’re at right now in the case of the relief line, we’re not so advanced in
design that you could say you have anything close to even market ready. So I mean, rather
than saying costs I’d almost call them estimates. So you know, and I think that’s something
that’s really important to confirm in the community. So that they understand, you know,
what these numbers really mean and that we don’t makes sometimes these blanket statements
that I think lead people to wrong conclusions thank you.
Before we continue I’d like to welcome the grade 5 students from the Toronto school located
inward 6 York centre. [applause] welcome.
Councillor Fletcher thank you very much. I just want to establish that the tpap has been
completed for the relief line and that was a number of years in the making yes, through
the speaker, that’s correct it was approved by the province in the fall of 2018 last fall
it was approved it allowed us to go to 30% design for the relief line, and that has — that’s
the process that’s currently underway and do we have a — thank you. So in order to
change anything significantly we would have to go back again, or there would still have
to be another environmental assessment should it be changed as radically as outlined in
the letter from Mr. Lindsey. Yes, depending on what they have in mind that
will involve going back through the process again right. So currently the relief line
is attached to line 2, and the design shows it arriving page station, there’s a number
of configurations, but it has an attachment to line 2, would I be correct in saying that?
I believe I am that is correct attached to line 2. And also the province is suggesting
that we would extend — add 3 stations instead 1 on the Scarborough extension which is essentially
a line 2 extension through the speaker, that’s correct however, in the letter it appears
that the relief line will no longer be aligned with line 2, it’s called old technology or
outdated technology for line 2, did I read that right?
Yes, that is how it was written but we don’t believe that is true?
So the fact is though they’re suggesting a different type of line rather than one that
would be in conformity with line 2, that’s how I read the letter, did you read it like
that? That’s how I read the letter but I don’t have
any specifics about the new technology? So could you just outline someone from the
TTC how important it is to have rolling stock that is moveable throughout the entire system
rather than one type of train here on a gage and another type of train on another gage,
is that an important factor for our system as a whole?
Through you, chair, that’s correct it’s very important to be able to move trains from one
line to another like we do today on line 1 and 2. The intent of the leaf line is to use
greenwood yard the intent of the relief line is to use greenwood yard. How many trains
are there parked there starting and stopping from the greenwood yard?
There’s about 50 today 50 at a time? And so the idea is that that exists, that’s one of
the reasons why it’s close to — and you would be table to take those trains out and put
them in service on the relief line. This notion that there needs to be a different technology,
a different type of vehicle gage I’m assuming everything, would not allow the trains that
are next door to be used on that relief line. So — that is correct and there would have
to be a different yard am I right? That is correct we don’t have enough information
for them at this time but you are correct but reasonably if you’re using a different
kind of train rather than the one that we’re using on line 2, then you would have to find
somewhere to park all of those that would be on the relief line and I believe the letter
says it would be a whole new line that would run all around the city so you’ve not heard
about that before outside of this particular — okay. So would that be something I guess
that would be in discussion with the province as far as the importance of uniformity and
rolling stock being comparable across all of our lines?
That would be an obvious discussion point uh-huh. And the other one is basically how
much time will that — let’s say we change that whole thing on the relief line to a different
stock, a different gage, a different everything we would have to go back to zero on the tpap
the current tpap is for the subway that starts at greenwood station goes to — and would
be used on the relief line through speaker it’s very difficult to speculate but we have
approved station location it improves a route connection from Osgoode out to Pape premised
on many of the characteristics that have been outlined in your questions going back — approved
the — [multiple speakers] it approved all of those things it’s a package — that was
your last question it would have to be completely evaluate my question was time lines thank
you time lines I will argue would be significant thank you. Councillor Colle thank you, Madam
Chair. To the city manager in your discussions with the provincial officials, are you getting
the impression that they’re no longer talking about uploading, that all of a sudden they’re
priorities seem to be not uploading but basically building these four lines?
Through the speaker — I thought the discussion was going to be the table was about uploading
scenarios. Through the speaker, I believe both discussions
are going to occur. The uploading has not gone away. We’re providing them information
to assist with that kind of discussion, but I think what they’re wanting to do is to the
extent possible advance expansion as well. So we’re working on really kind of 2 different
paths but both at the same time has there been face-to-face discussions about the complexities
of uploading, and the costs of the state of good repair, and would they take that over?
Have those discussions taken place? Through the speaker, I mean, those discussions
have started. There are certainly a number of complications around the accounting practices
that are going to be deployed, you know, I don’t see an answer to the uploading occurring
anytime soon. Given the complexity of it and the kind of information sharing and the ultimate
decision, I don’t see it as something that we’re going to resolve in 2019, about any
step. Exactly how much time it will take, I can’t speculate but it’s not a quick conversation
but their priorities seem to be these 4 lines and getting them built through the chair — speaker,
that I think is true yeah, I just have a question of TTC staff, I just want to follow-up on
Councillor Fletcher’s talking about in terms of this bizarre reference about the relief
line south they talk about the new mystery technology that they’re going to use, have
they mentioned what the mystery technology is is it going to be rt, 2 line I can’t remember
induction motors have they given an indication of what the mystery new line is going to be
using? Through you, chair, they have not given us
any specifics whatsoever regarding what the new technology is did you ask what the magical
technology is going to be that’s going to run through the middle of the city that is
supposedly much better than as they say the outdated technology of line 2 that is not
adequate obviously according to them? Of course, you know they talk about different
he will will law invasion they talk about a lighter train, the slope, but no specifics
they’re talking about mag lev technology, what else would it be?
Not sure to be honest with you? So they wouldn’t have given an indication
because they obviously have something in mind and why wouldn’t they tell you what the technology
is going to be? And whereas Councillor Fletcher said where would the new yard have to be?
You’d have to train hundreds of new engineers and technology people to deal with this magical
technology. Did you ask them about that? Yeah, we’ve asked those specific questions
a number of times and we’ve got no answer no answer. And what about why is the existing
subway system as they describe in line 2, tech logically outdated? Is that what the
— I guess the norm is and the rest of North America where they’re using this outdated
technology, do you agree that the technology on our existing subway is tech logically outdated
and should be abandoned because they’re obviously wanting us to switch to the magical elevation
they’re going to run through Toronto? I believe the product in which we’re proposing
is a sound proven technology that will work just fine in the city’s a subway did you ask
them how they would — the interchange, you know one of the strong features about the
Toronto system it is transparently interchangeable between the different sub ways and street
cars, how would you have this magical elevated line interact with the existing heavy rail
traditional Toronto subway? Again, we need more specifics helicoptering
or elevated — there’s been no clarification on their part on what they’re proposing?
So they won’t divulge this magical technology they think is much better than existing subway
technology that is your last question that is correct thank you. Councillor Matlow I
understand the report is planned for next week to tell council the current costs of
the one stop subway proposal. Given the context of what we’re debating today I would appreciate
it if staff with share with the public and council what the current costs are of that
plan. I think we have, but maybe we can repeat it
again. The current projected cost is 3.9 billion
just shy of 3.9 billion 3.9 million and — billion rather excuse me. And how long have you been
aware of those costs because we were told before the election that it was 3.35.
Through the chair, again we’ve just finished the estimate. We actually had the third party
verification completed at the beginning of this month. So the last is to formalize it
to put it into the report for the approved report that fully funded? Do we have all the
funds allocated and designated for covering $3.9 billion for the one stop subway?
Through the chair, we have funding that was approved by council back in 2013 to fund infrastructure
estimated at that time of 3.56 billion okay. So there’s a few million dollars that we don’t
know why where the money is going to come from yet. People mere ford has said he wants
to add 2 stops and he and his minister has announced that it’s going to be to paraphrase
the private industry that’s going to pay for those 2 stops. What is our position on whether
or not that is feasible or realistic? If I can through the speaker, we have no evidence
one way or another whether or not the private sector would pick up those costs can we point
to another city in the western world that had been successful in having a private company
pay for 2 subway stops in the inner suburban area I’m off the — in the western hemisphere,
no I’m not aware of any. I think — I think safe to say in the order of magnitude of stations
that are 200, 300, 4 hundred million dollars to build in the context of that amount of
money it would have to be a very significant development to even begin to contribute to
that scale of station development you don’t see it as realistic based on the evidence
that you’ve seen? In my experience I’d be happy to — to revisit
that if I was shown that information very diplomatic. The relief line if we start — if
they start making significant changes to the work that’s already been done at the preliminary
stage, do we have any sense even with the information we have whether or not this — this
— let’s say could result in significant delays to actually building the line?
Through the speaker until we actually understand the scheme they’re presenting it’s very hard
to make that judgement at this point in time? So we really don’t know what they mean yet?
No okay. Now, given that they want to spend potentially hundreds of millions of dollars,
billions of dollars tunneling and what I understand is unnecessarily tunneling the west line are
there other priorities that like based on facts, based on actual priorities, that we
would prefer to see those funds go to? I’ll give you an example the east LRT, the waterfront
LRT perhaps there’s other, do we have a list of priorities based on evidence and real need
that we would prefer the province to invest in?
As the city manager previously indicated there’s a bundle of priorities. The Scarborough extension
that replaces the RT, the smart track stations, the relief line and all the work needed that
is a bundle is our priority because it deals with the congestion in the system and the
health and safety of the employees and the customers in the system.
What’s a high priority an LRT along the waterfront or burying the west?
The — the second tranche that the city manager referred to are the east, west and the waterfront
package thank you that’s the second tranche thank you.
What will this report be covering for transit I’ll start and — where we’ve referred to
it as staff is the on the bus transit report. We want to give you a very up to date snapshot
of all the major transit projects that we’ve been working on, understand where we’re at
in terms of their design, where we are in terms of their schedule, where we are with
respect to funding. Now, that we have some information from the province we’ll be working
to incorporate that into this report. So our goal here is to give you a very clear picture
as well as where we need some support from you to continue working on certain aspects
of this range of projects. We’re going to be asking you for some decisions and some
support to continue on some of these projects. And what are the time lines for this negotiation
with the province? Like when is this supposed to be wrapped up?
The way I think we first heard about it through the speaker was it was a phased approach that
they were talking about. So the first phase was to look at the concept of uploading and
as well in that we were going to be looking at — at subway extensions. Once that first
phase was done, certainly from an upload standpoint we would get into the practical or the legal
work that would be necessary in order to execute an upload if in fact, that’s where we landed.
So there was no real hard fast month, year established from the get go?
So all of this information that you’re presenting next month will be carried forward into this
negotiation process, so we’ll have up to date information on costs, schedules status of
procurement that will be shared with the province so that through this negotiation we can look
at what any implications can happen to time lines yes I’m a little concerned the letter
that was received from premiere ford only mentioned 4 projects so I’m wondering if you
— of that discussion? Through the speaker, so that we’re clear,
the letter that was received or the one that’s in front of you was signed by Michael Lindsey
and the deputy minister of transportation. So it wasn’t the premiere okay so from the
Ontario government yeah okay. Thank you? So I mean, again it identifies their priorities
and obviously those other projects that we presented to them back on March 9th aren’t
within their list of priority projects but there are a part of the scope for this discussion
they just have not been carried forward as a priority we haven’t heard yet their interest
in those projects the one that you just mentioned and others with you — and do everything we
can at the table to discuss their importance and to see whether or not we can get support
for moving forward? So is inclusion of the west LRT for example,
is that scope creep in this discussion because the original discussion was about subways?
You know, again, I can ask staff to give me a hand here but I think you know, you can
characterize it as scope creep. It’s now seemingly is taking on more of a regional importance
in terms of potential connection beyond our limits to the airport. So this is something
that you know, we’re hearing about and want to hear more about in terms of how it is that
that would be accomplished. As I stated I mean wave preference and this new information
if you will, not that you haven’t looked at sub surface transit, but you know, we need
more information to understand what the implications of this are and if through this process it’s
deemed that a project is not uploaded, what will be next? Like what are the avenues that
are available to us to continue moving forward on for example, a project like the east LRT?
Well, again, I think you know, it will be up to us to decide whether or not or how to
fund it. If there is no direct involvement from the province and again as I mentioned
earlier, I think it’s important that you know, as the federal government is making decision
on 2 that ourselves and the province to the extent we can get on the same page ought to
be sending a consistent message to the feds in terms of how their 4.9 billion will be
invested so — okay. Thank you thank you. Councillor Wong-Tam yes. Thank you very much,
Madam Speaker. Given the ridership projections will the extension be able to operate either
a one line or a one stop or even a three stop subway without subsidies?
Through the speaker, I’m going to ask TTC to answer that question.
And then who will pay for these subsidies? Through the chair, we believe it will always
require subsidies okay. And has there been any indications on who will pay for those
subsidies? Not at this time.
In the letter from March 22nd from the province to our city manager and the TTC CEO the writer
claims that the TTC has not considered — in any material ways part of the current design
putting extension west to LRT underground. Do you agree with this statement?
Through the speaker, we’ve considered that several times in the course of the analysis
that we’ve undertaken over 69 last several years including more recent consultation with
the community and what would — why would the writer that have letter Mr. Lindsey, suggest
something that seems to — that contradicts what’s actually been happening?
I believe that was clarified in the second letter where they acknowledge that we had
undertaken that work is there any benefit to establishing a relief line as a freestanding
project from line 2? Again, through the speaker, you know, notwithstanding
understanding what the technology that they have in mind, that’s the kind of analysis
that I think we would want to undertake and provide it to you. So I don’t think at this
point we want to be getting ahead of ourselves but considering that we’re actually spending
millions of dollars to do the early design and planning work of the relief line, would
we not have considered that if that was a logical conclusion and a benefit to designing
and implementing and executing this project would we not have just drawn that conclusion
you’ve got all the experts and engineers put into a room, why didn’t we think of that,
to separate that from the network? Again, I think through the speaker, I think
you raise a very good point as to if it is something that we missed, then, of course
we would — we would clearly state that. Again, because we’re kind of lacking in detail here
it’s kind of hard to make what we would likely make as a strong argument as to what our concerns
are about whatever it is they’re proposing but it’s really hard to kind of make any kind
of public statement about something you’re not clear on and yet the province does that.
In all your conversations and communications with the province, have they ever provided
any substantial and credible information about the alternative delivery method that they’ve
referenced in these letters? Through the speaker, short answer is no.
And have you asked them for further explanations? We have been asking and not only eventually
but in writing for a range of things. And so, you know, again, I think we’re, you know,
we’re hearing more — we’re getting in part what we’ve certainly have asked for was clarity
on their involvement in terms of this whole upload and included with that the extensions
of our system. So now that we’ve got some detail, not a lot, it just begs a whole other
series of questions that we have so we can bring back good information to you does it
concern you that you are asking questions and not receiving substantial answers? And
versus to reask the question and again not get answers?
I think that’s a reasonable comment, speaker. I think you know at the end of the day, you
know, everyone is — you know to build a good relationship you need to, you know, be open
and you need to, you know, develop trust. And so trust is a two-way street. And certainly
answers to important questions need to be provided. I’m not at a point where I think
it’s you know time to kind of, you know, followed up our tent by any stretch. I think I want
to continue to work with them to continue to ask the questions and get the answers that
I know you want, and our community wants my final question is about operating costs. It
costs dollars, significant dollars to operate a system such as this. And as the province
is proposing to parcel off different pieces, has there been any discussion about the operating
dollars required, and who will pay for them? Short answer is no.
Okay. And has there been any consideration on the impacts to the equality of ridership
experience today as we are taken on this new conversation and exploring this new option
and this new technology that was your last question Councillor Wong-Tam, thank you I
think through the speaker your last question and comment really is speaks to the kind of
evaluation that we need to do. And I think that’s — that’s something that we would like
to report back on once we’re clear on what exactly it is that we’re assessing, and you
know as a normal environmental assessment there’s a range of things that we’re supposed
to estimate in terms of impact, whether it’s positive or negative. So that kind of comment
you just made would be something that we’d want to report back on, what is the effect
at the end of the day to the rider, and is it the same, better or worse.
Thank you. Councillor Thompson. Thank you very much, speaker. My first question
is to the city manager. Mr. City manager, there are 2 letters one dated March the 22
and the 26th. And it seems that the letter dated March 22nd is a correction of the March
— sorry — the March 26th letter is a correction of the 22nd. When you first received this
March 22nd letter, did you or someone as part of your team reach out to the province to
ask for clarification on the letter of March 22nd because you noticed inconsistencies in
that letter? Through the speaker, I mean as you would expect
we have — and you can see most of our team to my left. So we have a wide variety of skills
which that letter was shared with all of them because before I’m going to make any call
to the province or to Michael Lindsey in particular I want to understand obviously our varied
perspectives. We came together over the weekend. We in fact, had a teleconference call on Sunday
and went through all the issues as we saw them as individuals with different skill set.
It was only then that we had a sum — some total opinion as to what we thought of the
first letter which, of course we were fortunate in that we had a meeting scheduled for the
Monday which would give us an opportunity to face-to-face to the two people that signed
the letter to express all those concerns which is what precipitated the revised letter that
we received yesterday in the letter — well the one that’s dated March 22 nd, it talks
about a line terminating at Scarborough Town Centre. It then in the letter dated March
22nd it talks about a station located a the Scarborough Centre, it doesn’t specifically
say it’s the town centre. It just says Scarborough Centre and then it talks about the preferred
3 stop position of the province. But then it goes on to say that the project would proceed
north from the station at the Scarborough Centre. So I guess my question is: If it’s
a three stop and one is at the Scarborough Town Centre or centre, where would be the
first stop and where would the terminus of the third stop since the Scarborough Centre
stop would be in between? Do we know that two part. The letter of the 22nd raised those
kind of questions which precipitated the second letter. But specifically 20 your question
if I could get someone over on my left-hand side to answer that question that would be
appreciated thank you. We don’t specifically know whereas you point
out Councillor through speaker that one station would be Scarborough Centre, second station
possibly to the north at shepherd perhaps an interline station perhaps at Lawrence but
we don’t know specifically other than what was written in the letter I see. There was
a question asked about subsidies to the expansion for Scarborough, line into Scarborough. The
TTC is subsidized in general is it not, are all the lines not subsidized that’s correct?
So then is Scarborough would Scarborough be unique in terms of its need for subsidy no
it would not Mr. City manager, could you help me to understand as part of the discussion
I thought we were entering into there was going to be a discussion about valuation and,
you know, a contributions to the city potentially that we would be realizing funds. We have
a buildings funds which the .5% that we’ve been working on for some time. Those assets
or those funds would be — if we were obviously developing the city — the line with the province,
would be contributed to that if this uploading takes place. What happens to those funds and
what’s taking place in terms of the valuation discussion, will the city realize funds or
will we have to contribute to the requests of the province to upload the system?
So through the speaker I can’t give you specific answers to those questions appreciate that
those are exactly the kinds of questions that we’re going to have to address in the coming
weeks and months okay. Thank you, speaker. Those are my questions thank you. Councillor
Bailão thank you, Madam Speaker. Through you Madam Speaker to the city manager. So
the letter says that there’s discussions concerning the distribution and responsibilities of expansion
of projects and then — the value and continue of the existing subway network. Where are
we having the conversation about the network? And the impact that whatever action we take
is going to have on the network? Through the speaker as I think we mentioned
at executive there’s that third option which it goes beyond subways and starts talking
about transit network as a whole. And that was something that is now in the terms of
reference. We didn’t start there. It’s a conversation that we think is really important in order
to set the context for the kinds of investments that need to be made. So that is part of our
process. That is something that we’ve already started sharing information on. But we want
to bring those conversations to the table to see how if at all we can influence the
province’s — because if we don’t know those terms, if we don’t have that kind of information
I’m looking for example, at project that the province says it’s a priority for them the
west extension and having it underground who’s going to be then paying for the maintenance
that have tunnel? Are we putting the horse before the cart like I mean, which one it’s
a chicken and egg thing, I mean we don’t know what upload is but meanwhile we’re talking
about these projects individually outside of actually having a framework about a network
that is actually going to serve the people of Toronto through the speaker I think what
you just highlighted will be the kinds of questions that we’re going to have to provide
you answers on. So — so I mean you’re raising the kinds of questions that we’re — that
are in our heads and wanting to kind of you know, as quick as we can get you responses
to that. Because there’s many question marks right now?
So are you formulating these questions as well with the principals and what council
has approved? So council has a position that we don’t believe the upload should happen,
council has a position on the priority projects tranche 1, tranche 2, are you going to the
table with those positions, council positions and leading your discussions and leading your
conversations and leading your arguments based on the position that is council gave you I
think through the speaker, what you just said was really the basis for our March 9th meeting.
Where we spent half a day going through or entire network of projects and investments.
And to try and again to make sure the context of transit in the City of Toronto is understood
by the provincial representatives who we’re working with okay. I just want to go over
a little bit about your public consultation plan. You say — so the first meeting is going
to happen in may and then there’s a series of public meetings as well that’s right Councillor.
We’re still formulating what that public consultation is going to look like with our consultant.
So the plan is to have the first one in may and roll those out from there and you talk
about stage 1 and stage 2, when is stage 1? Stage 1 would be starting may we would do
that initial consultation that will help inform the next report to council and then if required
we would then have the stage 2 consultation once we have a more focused approach to what
we’re looking at? Okay. And so will we be seeing more of this
report, will you inform Councillors will Councillors be able to participate as well through the
consultation? Yep we’ll do a very broad communications.
We’ll be using our website, we’ll be doing advertising, we’ll be using social media,
of course. Internal communications. So emails to Councillors advising them of when these
meetings and where they’re occurring making sure that 311 are fully informed — so we
had a motion about a public campaign about the city’s position and informing Torontonians
about city’s position, could this be compliment tear and feeding into this plan that you have?
So the report and consultation is based on the terms of reference that we do a meaningful
public consultation on the 3 streams that are in the report to the executive that talks
about you know, what are those ocean options what do they look like? It does not talk about
advertising or advocacy or those types of things. It is focused socially on what are
the oceans don’t you think that is to start the consultation at least we need to tell
people what is our position it is what are the options. There’s 3 — there’s a position.
We voted on a position that was your last question it’s a 3 streams Councillor, that
we’re consulting on, not on the original thank you. Councillor Carroll thank you Madam Speaker.
I go back to the report that was before executive, before we got the news before we got the letters.
It’s helpful at the beginning of the city manager’s report that you quote — you quote
the pre election language and then go onto talk about what has been agreed to by the
parties. But I’m troubled because the language about maintenance of the system that exists
today was much more concrete pre election looking at such things that consistent with
the attention of accelerating projects but also to deal with the TTC’s current backlog
of deferred maintenance in its subway systems. So they seem to have been really concrete
about understanding our system. Now, that the language is getting a little more — it’s
about networks and they should be safe and reliable but the emphasis is connectivity
although they are proposing a line that doesn’t connect. My question is this: Knowing for
several months now that they — that they were going to make a commitment to maintenance
have you got staff developing a hard ask around the existing service? Do we — we seem to
be in a table pass back and forth a set of letters. Do we have a hard and that’s in an
envelope ready when if things start to go pear shaped we’re going to say this is our
bottom line on the existing system? Flue the speaker I’m going to ask rick to
speak to the maintenance challenges that TTC is facing and how we would address it at this
table I know what they are but what’s our hard ask?
Apologize and just say if you would ask the question. I apologize if I could get a few
more seconds, Madam Speaker. We’ve known for self months that — that they were campaigning
on dealing with our own deferred maintenance and maintenance struggle in the existing system.
Have we been in all this time developing our hard ask in case things go pear shaped at
the table ready to say this is the bottom line on the existing system that people are
riding today we’ve spent a lot of time with them on the challenges that we have on line
1 today. The new facilities and the Yonge station redesign as well. So we’ve put that
clear to them? So you’ve sort of painted a picture for them,
but we seem to be moving into a we’re now going to pass letters back and forth. And
we’re going to make them public so that we’re sort of floating trial balloons with the public
even as we’re passing you here’s our bottom line we want to expand these lines this way.
That’s pretty much what we got on October 22nd and 267th. Are we ready for negotiations
that goes — sorry. Thank you Councillor Colle, March. Are we ready for if that’s the case
we need to have a letter that says here’s the bottom line on the existing system, what
role do you want to take in the $33 billion of capital backlog over 15 years and what
role do you want to take in the operating our dream months ago we — we reminded you
have this our dream always in this council chamber has been to return to the bill Davis
deal on operating, is that our hard ask, and is it on paper and ready to be mailed?
Through you chair, it’s a continuation of a discussion we have with them regarding the
partnership and funding for the need of the capital investment plan which was provided
to you in January. We continue to talk to them about that if I can through speaker as
you well know option 3 very clearly speaks to governance and funding yes it’s through
option 3 in an I think we wants to have the hard ask provided to them of which some of
it you already have heard about, the $33.5 billion state of good repair challenge that
Toronto Transit Commission is facing of which and correct me I think 20 billion of that
is related to subways. So we want to be able to put the maintenance challenge that we have
in front of them formally in terms of ongoing operating. We used to have funding from the
— I think all of that changed when — took place but we may need to revisit it do you
feel I’ve only got a few seconds left. Did you feel you have enough direction that you
would sit down and developed that hard ask not as here’s a hand out here’s what we need,
but we’ve actually sat down in our shop and developed an ask that is rational, that supposes
that you have pressure from your taxpayer just as we have from ours, here’s what we
think there’s a viable way for us to partner on the system that our riders are riding today
that was your last question and through speaker that is exactly what’s envisioned in option
3 and that exact information we can provide them. I don’t think we need direction on it.
I think it’s something within our ability thank you.
[technical difficulty] all the fact and both sides of the story?
Through speaker, yes. So if you were to do that, there would be
some information about funding levels, but if it’s about uploading, and who’s going to
construct transit would you feel compelled to tell the good parts about and also the
more critical parts about our history of building transit?
Through the speaker I mean that was the point you raised at executive, and I think our answer
to it then is as today is of course we have to provide a very objective balanced perspective
on the abilities of all the parties to actually deliver on the infrastructure or transit commitments?
So if we were going to be complete transparent we would have to tell our story about the
tysse, about automatic train control and about — through the speaker we would do that. But
I also would make it evidently or abundantly clear that one of those parties has actually
built subways, maintained subways and designed subways sure one of them has built them but
run up pretty expensive [technical difficulties] the terms of?
Right acknowledge and I’m quoting — is a required input to effective
decision making to that end during the process the parties will conduct consultation with
the public including other key stakeholders, can you point me to the effective public consultation
that took place for the province to decide that these 4 were the priority lines?
Through the speaker, I mean, again we did ask for them to make clear their positions
and so we have those positions now in front of us. It’s now our job to better understand
them. So that we can communicate that to — speaking specifically to the public consultation which,
again, yep was a requirement that council directed you meet in order to be at the table.
Did you get that effective public consultation on the decision that the province has put
in front of us that these are the 4 priority lines and if I can through speaker, I think
in the second letter I mean they do come back and reference the importance of taking these
positions forward in the spirit of what the terms of reference require. So and they are
— so I’m assuming that there is an opportunity to have you know, a reasonable discussion
about those positions that have been taken. And to see if we can’t involve them in such
a manner that not just address administrative needs but also the needs of this community
okay it’s kind of the way it’s unfolding right now on the March 26th letter the 4th bullet
point that says before the next set of conversations we the province require your, the city’s assurance
given associated commercial sensitivities that this information will be protected under
the confidentially provisions of the Toronto Ontario cooperation and consultation agreement.
By commercial sensitivity I have to imagine there’s a possibility that’s a third party,
there was possibility of that? Because I mean the province of Ontario is, you know, it’s
a publically owned — it’s a public government they don’t have commercial sensitivity in
dealing with us, there’s a possibility this could be referring to they’re going to tell
you about a third party vendor they have in mind maybe for this magical drl technology
I think through the speaker, you know, and the conversation at the table has really been
about providing as much information as we can certainly in the public domain. So those
things that are hard and fast confidential matters that we would — if we weren’t dealing
with this situation dealing with other situations that we would apply confidentiality to, I
would expect that would hold true in this exercise you don’t hold confidentiality when
we’re doing estimates on what it’s going to cost to procure a subway here that’s all public
all I can say to you through the speaker is that our goal every day when we sit down and
talk to them is to try and gets much information as we can that’s fair. But at this April 9th
meeting that they’re discussing here they bring a proposal for bill and ted’s excellent
subway company to build all the extensions, and say this is commercially sensitive you
would not be in a position to provide that information publically if you agree to those
terms, would you? I think, yeah, I’d want to get some — I don’t
know to be quite honest. I think I would like to push them on that kind of thing okay. At
the Executive Committee and again here, you referenced that there are 3 different paths
and the third path which is that the city retain the ownership and operations of the
subway and we have a conversation about funding. That’s a particular path. Now, in the letters
that we have received just were sent to us at 6:00 last night the province said that
they want to assume a lead role in the design and delivery and several other aspects of
this subway. That sounds to me like path 1 or path 2. So by this letter am I take to
take it that path 3 which is the one that you said best fits the directions that council
has given you is off the table? That was your last question I have not, through
the speaker received any verbal or written communication that says that they’re not going
to honour path 3, but I fully understand your point.
Thank you. Councillor Cressy. Thank you speaker. I’ll direct my questions
to the TTC. And I have a couple quick questions related to it. How many annual riders do we
have on the TTC? Last year we carried approximately 530 or
520 million trips 520 million trips is that the largest in Canada?
It is how many rapid transit line do we have? 4 bus routes 150 streetcar routes ten street
cars routes 4 rapid transit lines, ten streetcar routes with 520 million annual rides is it
an integrated system? Very much so, yes are there risks if it is
not owned and operated as one system there are risks that there will be substantial change
to say services given to our customers if the service is no longer integrated, yes of
those 3 lines if you pull out one they may not work together any longer?
We don’t know the exact proposal, but they may not work well together if they are disintegrated
correct I’ll carry on with TTC before coming to the city manager as a heads up. Transit
time lines we heard from the province the west tunnel proposal related to subway expansion,
if there was an west tunnel proposal would that result in the delay to the west project?
Yes or no? Through the speaker, there are — we have
not yet entered detailed design phase on west. Break technical difficult] would it take longer
or build the current one stop Scarborough subway if
we were to have to revise design work to accommodate a 3 stop Scarborough subway, would it take
longer to build? Yes, it would thank you. Would it take longer
to build the downtown relief line referred to in the provincial letter as the relief
line south if we were to redesign it with a new technology or alternate tip delivery
system? Until we actually speak to the province and
find out it’s very difficult to meet that comment at this point in time.
So we know it would take longer to build we know it would take longer to build the one
stop subway if there were 3 stops at this point it is not yet known on the drl, understood.
As it relates to the Yonge north subway expansion in the letter — is there a risk of capacity
to the Yonge subway to line 1 that is correct. Thank you. To the city manager one of the
recommendations outside of the $2 million which we are asking for cost recovery from
the province on, is a recommendation that we utilize some of that $2 million to conduct
public opinion research polling on the public’s view of the subway upload is that correct
it’s correct and our head of chief communication officer can speak to all the specifics related
to that I don’t need the specifics. Just it is correct yes that we intend to use money
to test public opinion on this subject yes, we wanted to make sure we were capturing a
broad — broad opinion across, you know, all sectors of society public meetings, polling,
surveys so there’s a recommendation to use public money to test public opinion, is there
any stuff recommendation to use public money to shape public opinion through an education
campaign? No, there is not thank you very much. That’s
all my questions. Thank you. Councillor Filion yes, I have a
line of questioning that would need to be in camera and I have a motion to go in camera.
I don’t want to — I tried to put myself at the end of the list so I’ll move the motion
because I’m standing, but that council resets it’s public session to meet as committee as
a whole in closed session to consider executive 3.1 it’s up on the screen so I don’t have
to read it all out. And hopefully we can — I’m being optimistic maybe we can finish by 12:30
and then go back in public after the lunch break.
Okay. There’s a motion by Councillor Filion on the screen to go in camera following lunch?
Did you not say Councillor Filion that a few members of council that’s on list that you
wanted to be at the end to have them finish, rights?
[off mic] oh you want to do it now. Okay that’s fine. All in favour?
What? To go in camera now. Okay. Carried.
If I can ask the members of the public to please vacate the council chambers and the media as well. Thank you. City Council has completed its
closed session consideration of item EX3.1. No motions were made in closed session. City
Council will recess for lunch and resume at 2:00 p.m. At which time we’ll debate on this
matter. Before we recess I just want to remind members of council that — holding their annual
luncheon in committee room 2 to 12:30 today. Recessed to lunch.

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