Should You Defend Bad Leaders To Your Team? – Jocko Willink

Should You Defend Bad Leaders To Your Team? – Jocko Willink


Jaakko and echo should you defend bad
leaders vacate your superiors to your men think about that question this is a
good it’s a good question and we haven’t done Q&A in a while that’s why I want to
start off think about that should you defend bad leaders that are people that
are in charge you should you defend them to your men now this is really a perfect
example of the dichotomy of leadership and this is one of those situations that
makes leadership very very hard because it requires a nuanced balance to handle
this correctly so on one hand if we if we say our boss is a bad leader and
doesn’t know what he’s doing don’t forgot the boss hey echo our boss
doesn’t know what he’s doing he’s an idiot we undermine his authority for
sure and we undermine the authority of the whole chain of command yeah so
should you call out when someone sucks you say oh that guys sucks he’s terrible
should you do that to your leader the answer is no you can’t do that you can’t
do that cuz you’re undermining everything so you got a horrible leader
you can’t just sit there to your boys and say hey this guy’s an idiot you
can’t do that however if you give full support to this horrible boss then your
troops who know a good leader from a bad leader they know what’s stupid and what
isn’t they know this they know this and if you are sitting there back in them
100% then they’re gonna know that you either
actually agree with the bad leader which is bad or that you’re too weak to stand
up and say eh boss what we’re doing is wrong so you can’t go to one extreme the
boss is an idiot you can’t go to the other extreme the boss is awesome think
about how hard that is think about what I’m saying this is a very
challenging so what can you do well okay first of all as a subordinate leader it
is your duty to push back right to say hey boss I think we’re doing the wrong
thing here and this is why we spend a lot of time trying to build
relationships with our bosses so that we can have candid conversations with them
right sometimes it’s hard to do that it is I understand
but when you have built a relationship then you can go to your boss and say hey
look this isn’t this isn’t good now once you’ve done that then you can go to your
go to your troops and you say hey look I went to the boss that’s what I told him
you know I told him that hey doing this method isn’t gonna work well he
explained to me while we’re doing it this is what he said so this is why
we’re using this method I know it’s not popular to you guys
but it’s it’s here’s the reason why we’re doing it so you made progress
right your guys were saying okay well he at least stood up to the man mm-hmm and
now he gave us an answer he told us why we’re doing what we’re doing so that’s
good too but the other thing is one of the easiest way to do this is to provide
an honest to Pintrest truth is gonna be your friend here truth is gonna be your
friend now I should I just put a caveat around that because the truth might be
you think your boss is a complete idiot and everything he’s saying is stupid
okay so I I take it back no news full-on truth and this is so this is so
interesting too because clearly truthfulness is a huge you know it’s a
value that I’ve hold very dear right and you got to be truthful and all that I’m
telling you right now do not be true if you think your boss is an idiot and you
think the method that he’s picking or the plan he’s got is stupid hmm don’t be
true fool your guys and go down there and say Boston it’s not gonna help your
team right we have to be smart about what we’re doing but when you when you
do that what you need to do is keep it somewhere in the middle okay so it when
you say something negative don’t get all crazy with the negative
don’t get all nuts with the negative what you want to do is say you say
something like hey look I’m sure there’s some better ways of doing this but this
is the decision that was made and we need to make it work right so I’m not
saying it’s horrible and say look hey guys I’m sure there’s some better ways
but guess what this is what we are being told to do right now and we’re gonna do
the best we can notice that I’m putting it from like
them to the way I’m making it I’m taking ownership of it this is now ours to
execute yeah so you want to do that or you and and I also want to focus more on
as much as I can I want to focus on not the personality of the boss but I want
to focus on like the what we’re being told type thing or what the mission is
because I don’t want to bring I want to keep the personality the boss at bay
sometimes you get a boss that has such a raging asshole personality that you have
to say something like you just you have to explain and that’s when even then you
want to Dratch it it down a little bit you don’t say hey the boss is national
no the boss is an idiot no you don’t say that you know you say hey look guys I
know the bosses is not exactly perfect but I think he means well with what he’s
trying to do and that way we need to focus for that reason we need to focus
on executing because not gonna help us to sit here and complain about the boss
he might not have the greatest personality but you know what his
intention is good so let’s support him you know what I
mean it’s something like that where you’re not you’re not giving him full
support but you’re not completely throwing him under the bus again this is
so hard to do because if let’s face it the boys the troops they know what’s up
they know when that boss is an idiot they know when he’s unprofessional they
know when he treats you like shit they know that stuff and so if you bow down
if you break and you give that to him yes you’re right the boss is a jerk yes
you’re right the boss treats people like shit yeah if you give them that you’re
hurting the situation and that’s why also when you’re in a leadership
position your job oftentimes is to buffer between the jerk boss and the
boys you know the boys should never know that the the kind of stupid harassment
that you get from your boss the boy should never know that they should think
hey chocolate says this guy’s good to go we’re good to go
there’s never think that this guy’s an idiot hmm so again in both cases it’s
like you can’t go hardcore you can’t go hardcore against either the plan or the
person but you also at the same time you need to give a little bit of a
pressure-release just a little bit of a pressure-release you know gotta give him
just enough that they go you know what you want them to think you want them to
think hey joko gets it he knows mm-hmm he’s not admitting it to us and good on
him he’s keeping it professional they know and they know that John Lydon they
know I don’t love the boss but they know I’m keeping a professional so therefore
they they accept what I’m saying and they stay part of the team yeah it kind
of feels like I’m kind of imagining myself as one of the boys you’re my boss
in red we don’t really like your boss right
I feel like sure if I was made to feel better in whatever way just a little bit
better that pressure release I said just a little bit better about the mission
okay and I trust you because of how you always handle things or whatever you
know what all right it’s not the best funnest whatever it’s not my first
choice but at least we’re doing it together you know I trust you and all
right let’s do this kind of thing and one of the key things you just said is
trust so if you trust me and the boss is saying to do something completely
ridiculous and I come down and say echo guess what we’re gonna do we’re gonna
we’re gonna dig this hole and then we’re gonna fill it back in I want to do it
six times today let’s get to work and you know it’s stupid yeah and I come
down and try and sell that to you yeah without any explanation with that voice
yeah with that voice I’m gonna lose trust you’re gonna you’re not gonna
trust me as much now if I come down and say hey hey boys hey bring it this is
what’s going on yeah see I’m going back to you
going back to the leadership listen hey guys here’s what’s going on I know this
is gonna come across as a strange to ask we’re gonna get it done we got to dig
these holes I don’t want to fill them back in and we’re actually gonna do this
six times today again I know it’s not exactly what we were planning to do
today but look let’s get after it let’s get it done and let’s prove to everybody
that we can make this happen faster than and all Sun were we’re energy working
together yeah you know it’s no factor whereas again if I go into like a dorky
nerd voice and try and say we are going to do this because it’s the best plan
ever yeah you I’m losing trust with you yeah I’m actually hurting my trust so
this is a really really nuanced thing and my best advice here is to try and
keep it in the middle right it’s real and I’ll tell you probably lean a little
bit lean towards being professional lean towards supporting the chain of command
because because the guys are gonna know when you give them that little little
pressure relief you say hey I know this is code this is a little bit of a
strange plan as soon as I say that I was like okay here
yes working that know we’ll do whatever he says hey Jocko okay Jonica we get it
you got it you got you got to have us do this cool let’s do it yeah it’s when I
come down and say and again you’ll realize that this is this is the
opposite I say all the time you know if you come down and say the bosses plan we
got to do this I always saw that as like the worst possible leadership is hey we
got to do this because we were told to do it that’s the worst possible
leadership not saying to do that what I’m saying is a little pressure relief
just a little pressure relief of hey look I threw up a different plan I
thought my plan was a little bit better boss came up with this this idea we’re
gonna go for it it’s close enough just something like that just like hey I know
I know yeah that’s it little a little a little nugget yeah I feel like I would
feel if you were to be like this is such a dumb plan and I don’t know why we got
to do it or whatever I’d be like wait wait then why are we DL is that you know
you’re Zack you’re my bot like why we’re doing it then you know and I wouldn’t
want to do that no see yeah that’s like right in the
middle there it’s leaning towards being professional it’s leaning towards
supporting the chain of command yeah with just enough of a pressure
relief to have a story it’s cool this is real real
quick this was in do take your time I don’t want you tell me the longest story
we’re going back to the ninth grade and this is reading high school college it’s
weird that I even thought of this so we you know how like in in class right this
high early high school freshman you know in class you they’re like hey get into
groups we’re gonna do this thing and so we got into these groups and we did some
project little thing during class we’re done halfway through class we’re done
and we’re about to present the teacher looks at it and it was like oh you guys
got to do it again but the teacher doesn’t tell everyone she tells just
this one girl Marla is there named Marla yeah so Marla comes back from talking to
teacher and she’s like she was kind of a leader no one desi but she at that point
she was kind of a little leader than liaison between the guru and the teacher
so she comes back she’s like like we got to do it again and we’re and everyone’s
like what yes we got to do it again like you could tell she had accepted it but
just her being like sighing kind of demonstrated that a she feels the pain –
I dig it but hey guys you know we’re not gonna complain right it was just that
little subtle thing but that’s exactly what it did it kind of it basically
accepted the order that none of us really wanted to hear but at the same
time she demonstrated that a she feels it too you know and that’s what we did
again of course and whatever I don’t even know what great we got an a-plus
I’m sure Marla working her leadership skills on yeah it was weird that I mean
I don’t know necessarily that she intended to do that but that was the
exact effect and you can thinking back I can see the the elements you know the
little pressure release was her not saying don’t talk to me like that she
said we gotta do to get you know she didn’t lose anybody her just her little
she how mannerisms you know what she didn’t do she didn’t jump completely on
board with the teacher yeah and be like we got to do this again it sucked no
times like hey look we got we have to do this again ya know what I mean she just
the tone it’s permeated enough and I’ll tell you this this question I’m
surprised it took so long to get this question because this is a really really
good question and it also is a incredibly important skill to be able to
walk this line and it’s tricky to do and it’s a very it’s it’s sort of this
might be one of the this is like the type of thing that helped me a lot in
when I was in the teams was just being able to do this enough cuz you have to
do some dumb shit the teams man and you know what it’s like okay being able to
translate a stupid something stupid and give enough pressure relief to to make
guys not just go jock was just you know company guy yeah right it’s a company
guy look he just so he doesn’t stand up for us no actually I do but this is you
know like lifestyle telling that story about doing paperwork
well I’m like no we’re gonna do all the paperwork III went I held the company
line but like in such a dynamic or such an overboard way that guys are like okay
yeah we’re gonna win yeah this is a competition
yeah so that’s good times yeah it’s like a meat because it seems like okay all
that paperwork it’s it’s almost like the paperwork was like enough front dues
like a what right the odds against them kind of right where who told us to do
the paperwork and you were like yeah it’s awesome yeah that’s something I’ve
done I’ve actually done that a fair amount I talked about the story before
but like an Officer Candidate School every little stupid rule that they threw
at us I did it to the end three and had everybody that lasted and agree where
they were just going yeah in yeah going ballistic
so a story like that where we’re just going we’re gonna take with or take the
order and carry it out to the extremes and take pride in doing that was a
little tactic better just by me along the way yeah yeah we’re gonna do that
we’re gonna do it so hard you’re not even know what your name was that’s
another tactic you can take for sure they want us to polish these boots they
want to something wants to clean this thing we’ll do it watch this

100 comments

  1. Man this was a shitty way of getting around it. Too much pussy ass military leadership. This is the mindset of a lifelong team guy with little understanding of the real world. Jocko you're cool but you have no room to speak on a civilian issue .

  2. Jocko is only partially right.   In the military you have to drink the cool aid, its what you sign up for so you can't really tell a superior to go shit in a hat his idea is bad or you will face severe consequences.  In civilian life you can and the worst that will happen is you get fired which is no big deal if you are working for a bad leader anyways.   In the military you have to embrace the suck or else even if the commander in chief sends you into wars that you know are wrong you must go without question.  There is a difference and I don't think that was emphasized enough.

  3. Absolutely on point, guys. It has been sobering for me to realize that my worst characteristics have been a shining example to others — of what to avoid. At the same time, I've come to realize that the very best I can achieve in this life is to be an example to others of what to follow myself — of how to be.

    When sound principles are elevated above self-interest, everybody benefits — leaders and followers. The unprincipled leader is still an (unwitting) example and therefore an opportunity to see an underlying principle.

  4. @Jocko what i can do if my wife Always sabotage me? i mean, when the things are going to a right direction, she made fight, create problems, she is very jealous. i'm made the possible to be a good husband, a good father. All days a Wake up 4:30am, make exercices, study (a live in brazil and want a better life for my Family), i made the lunch, then i take the bus and go work, i study in bus, 30 min, work with drawning for enginnering, take the bus again, go to home, study in bus, do the homework, make food for my son, study again to be a police a day, but, she dont colaborate, i love she but i dont know what i can do… have a advice?

  5. This goes back on your playing the game pod cast too. Play the game build the relationships and you might be able to influence that leader and make him a better one by the end of it while buffering and protecting your guys

  6. Thanks for this. Makes me feel so much better about one of my last jobs as a leader, where I did have to walk this fine line. You guys are making me see that I could have done better, but that I grasped the problem and really did try to walk the line between acknowledging the bad orders while maintaining professionalism and supporting the chain of command. Great segment, this clip is mandatory leadership viewing, it's one of the thorniest problems that anyone who leads will eventually encounter.

  7. The prefixial attachment… "Hey guys… this is a bit strange… but…" AND all of a sudden, everyone gets it. It's a drill… It's a special maneuver… It's some kind of weird assignment… something. The trick is just getting participation… get your
    "guys" to do the thing…

    Not everything is dead-on target up and everything. Once in a while, you just do the deal, to keep the business going. It happens.

    …and I still have the paper-weight, with the silver dollar drilled dead-center… and the notation "1200 m cold bore" ;o)

  8. It's Irony . It's funny because when you use " get after it" mentality ; you're literally putting yourself " after" the poor methods or ideas, or waste of time, as if to say " oh well I'm over it because I'm following instructions, and we all have other things to get to after this ". So you're over the irony of the comments, and just face value at that point " yeah boss wants this painted green" now it's green, let's move forward.

  9. Congress is over-run with lawyers, but lucky for you lot; the President attended the Wharton School of Business.
    The stock market is up over 50% since Trump got elected, but there's more to the story; and not everyone has pensions or investments. So, let's break it down; and then people can see what difference their vote can make. A country's Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is a total of each individual's performance within an economy. United States Per-Capita GDP (meaning a country's wealth divided by its population) was $57,588 in 2016, and rose every year to $65,111 in 2019; with over $1 Trillion being added to the U.S. economy for each year of the Trump Admin. Governments don't have any money, they're funded by businesses and citizens. Despite the cost of government being reduced by tax cuts, overall tax revenue for the U.S. Gov. has hit a record every year of the Trump Admin. This means greater take-home pay, but more money for schools and parks. The GINI Index measures income inequality, and it grew every year under the Obama Administration; and has fallen ever since Trump took office. More conspicuous poverty indicators are unemployment and food stamp recipients, and both have fallen dramatically in the last three years. So, whether you live in the arts district or frequent the art gallery's; being American is better under this President. It's also safer to live in America, and for Americans who live outside of America; but the President is not everyone's buddy…he's the President.

  10. Very timely Q&A for me. My boss is so amazingly bad that a third of the staff is seeking mental health treatment, 80% of which is directly attributable to his command climate and the other 20% was aggravated by it.

  11. 10:22 – The "Yea it's kind of strange, but let's do it," leader is known to his subordinates to note his subordinates' concerns. Presenting it in such a way to your subordinates ensures that they know that, and that when the pressure release needs to occur to upper leadership, they can trust you will indeed let them have it.

    That pressure release goes into your chamber, and out of your subordinates' much smaller (necessarily smaller, because of their subordinance) chambers. When your chamber pressure releases, everyone will know.

    It's the leader that refuses to allow that pressure into their chamber that loses his subordinates' trust… As well as the leader that is clueless.

  12. Gotta disagree, no one called out mao when 40 million chinese were starving to death, and then 40 million people starved to death, chain of command is only as good as its leader and a leader can be an incompetent monster. Conformity can be a mechanism for evil.

  13. What do you do when your leader has a very aggressive personality and ends up having a sort of abusive relationship with his next in command? How do you build the healthy boundaries that are necessary so you can give constructive pushback without poking his insecurities?

  14. such a fucking fantastic topic. easily 50% of any boss/team leader/supervisor/executive will be "bad leaders". insightful convo

  15. What if the boss will not have a candid relationship? I'm in the middle, I try to show support and provide solutions to problems that are an ongoing pattern. I'm not even allowed to take ownership of my mistakes by implementing the necessary corrections. But yet I'll get the blame for the mistakes and future ones.

  16. @jockowillink, @echocharles, so I'm listening to 210 at the moment reviewing Jockos new book with Dave Berke, and you mentioned a "mutiny" where a bad leader was replaced, I've heard you refer in passing to the event on several occasions, I'd be interested in hearing a few more details in the context of the discussion in this except (all 15min of it) around supporting a bad leader. if it's already been discussed more fully, could someone point me to the episode number?

  17. I have developed my relationship with a bad boss for a long period of time, and that relationship helps cover my ass when I do things correctly despite his opinion. I have a lot more freedom in my workplace than most, but the relationship building is important regardless of boss quality. It gives me the slack I need to fix situations and builds trust with my coworkers. I don't need to undermine his authority to make things work smoothly because of that relationship. Semper Gumby.

  18. Grunts, blunt like a hammer. Last time Germans too, only obeyed orders. All wars are for profit of "leaders " paid in blood of stupid enough to follow them blindly. When was the last time you see them bleed?! They stay safe till the end of war and count the profits when you mothers and wife's grief. Stop gloryfy war. Usa paint itself as policeman of the world but really is biggest bully and a cruck.

  19. The heart of cultural competence, balancing criticism with respect. And ultimately, a bad leader inhibits their juniors from respectfully voicing their concerns.

    I’m a subscriber now. Great question, perfect guy to answer. Trust in organizational structure is key to maturity and competence to maintain professionalism and subordinates’ dignity.

    WRITE ABOUT THIS please

  20. I have a piece of advice. Sometimes you have to train your superior. Such as say you are in IT, or in construction, train your boss. I can't work these hours, or no not today I have to take my kid to the doctor. If you don't push back especially in todays America where your wages stay the same but rent keeps going up. Don't be rude but don't take it. Don't F bombs or be loud, just do you and they will get it or don't. Also you can always look for another job.

  21. Great advice for an aspiring leader! I’m 20 years old but sometimes find myself in that “buffer” position between the boys and the boss in my job. Supporting the chain of command to keep the system alive while preserving morale amongst the crew seems ideal.

  22. My first leadership class instructor showed a clip from Saving Private Ryan "Gripes go up, not down." – Sometimes this is easy. Most of the time it is not. The OCS story at the end of the video did not win me prizes. The passive aggressive technique of demonstrating the absurdity of the order by over complying with the order. I guess I have some apologies to make. I was pretty good at my job, but I was such a pain in the ass.

  23. good advice works for many types of leaders, but only to a point. some in the leadership position are intentionally the way they are and no middle ground, no amount of patience, etc., will help you, its their way at all costs and they intend to have sacrifices to make sure that happens. that is why the mortality rate in officers especially lieutenants during the vietnam war was so high, a practice i wish we used during the gulf war. i'd like to see if his opinion on this and see if it changes when he is the one the commander intends to screw at all costs even though he knows you don't deserve it and doesn't give a shit. some commanders for example have one way to lead by fear, etc., they do not care about your opinion, they intend to screw over a few good soldiers to make sure everyone else will not question them, and they fully intend to inflict needless casualties even in situations that wouldn't normally have such a risk just to show everyone who's in charge, you do it their way or else. now i did my best to practice the exact things he speaks of, however when your leader decides he's going to fuck you over, at all costs, not because you did anything to deserve it, that line of thinking goes out the window, especially when that commanders intentions for anyone is not good, not well intended at all.

  24. If you fail to acknowledge that the plan is probably flawed, then you are implicitly telling your team that you are going to throw them under the bus if the plan fails.

  25. As long as life isn't at threat, any mistakes that occur, the burden is on the leader, and not the team who executed their orders, regardless of what that asshole thinks. The one who gets paid more than the bad leader will see through the BS.

  26. I spent 6 years in the Navy. The leadership ranged from very poor to very good. I understand the idea of respecting the rank not the man. I have found that I respect competent people and have little respect for people that fake it. One of the reasons I left the USN is I was looking for the freedom to leave if I thought the leadership was incompetent. In the civilian world there are many incompetent managers/people. I'm obligated to inform management when they are going in the wrong direction, it's up to management if they want to accept or reject my advice. It's always up to me to determine if I have a future with the group or company.

  27. You should defend everyone your own against any opponent. Fact.
    Then again, you should bring up all the shit with your own. Come on.

  28. I don't even have to listen. Jockonwould say, "will you be able to make a difference when you get kicked out? " ie when Paton was kicked out for being too confident

  29. How can he answer this question. When you are in the military or police you dont think for yourself self you do what ever the boss says. That's how genocide and all evil on planet exists. Order followers.

  30. The middle ground (it sounds like to me) is trying to make the best of a bad situation:
    -try to talk to superior and reason with him so you don't appear weak or sheepish to your men, and also maybe you can convince your boss to change his mind
    -if boss does not change his mind, or does not budge much, explain the situation to your men, take ownership of the situation, and do your best with your team to execute the instructions/orders given to you

    Shows your men that you recognize that you have a bad superior, you tried to reason with him on your and their behalf, and even when you did not get your way, you do not simply lose hope in the situation or vent petty frustration. Instead, you try to make your superior's bad decision(s) work in spite of him.

  31. Saying someone is bad is most times subjective. The question should illicit a follow-up question – what actions do you define as bad? But I feel for military folks in battle scenarios potentially really having a bad leader could mean the difference between life and death.

  32. We once had a captain who never seen a ship in his entite career and life and was ejected from his desk into the captain’s seat for service. He did some damage but not where supposed to and went hiding when things got hot relying completely on every crew member to get the show going. We litteraly carried him through every command. But he learned very well and was very appriciative to every single one of us. It didnt matter what your problem was he would help you if he could. He gave us all so much extra leave and bonusses, FUCK ME!

  33. Spot on. 💯 part of building good leaders is believing in people, being being able to season your word with salt is good counsel. Truth with salt.

  34. Middle management where I work will NOT push back against upper management. They’re too intimidated and subservient.

    Also, I HATE following bosses who I don’t trust or respect. Typically, it’s a boss who is less competent at his job than I am at mine.

  35. When you have a bad leader at work, the worst that can happen is that it can get you fired. When you have a bad leader in the military, the worst that can happen is that it can get you killed. Something to think about.

  36. My goal is excellence in everything I do. This is why I listen and watch.

    Understanding and encouraging understanding is key in so many areas of life.

    We are all always either building or destroying/languishing.

  37. I’ve done that in hopes of building confidence for the leaders and to show loyalty and a collaborative approach. Unfortunately, it’s backfired both times because the leaders performance reflects poorly on me.

  38. You’re only saying that from a military perspective. Which is dumb just because the military tells you something doesn’t mean it’s true.

  39. When I was in, in a wartime situation, if your LT was asking you to cross an open field surrounded by trees, knowing heavy fire is probable and landmines are possible and your brothers could get shot and or die. LT get the first friendly fire. Facts.

  40. What you explained in minute 3 is called borrowed trust. There’s been a tons of research on doing this and it’s generally considered a bad thing.

  41. “Yea we’re gonna do that, we’re gonna do it so hard you’re not gonna know what your name was”…. same thing I tell girls I meet out

  42. I’ve worked for the fire department for 25 years. I’ve had good bosses and bad ones. With bad bosses I’ve always told the guys to focus on the mission. A good or bad plan doesn’t matter we will accomplish the mission. Great topic !

  43. A lesser evil is a good when the only choice to that is worse. The same for what is good: a lesser good is always evil when you can choose something better. That, of course, is the easy part of it, lol. Now for the discernment and energy and courage: that´s the hard part.

  44. "Hey guys, leadership decided that we need to commit mass suicide. And we're just going to have to do it." This is why Patton said "Never tell your men how to do something. Just give them the objective, and sit back and be amazed at how they get it done."

  45. Should You Defend Bad Leaders To Your Team? Yes and No. There are nuances that will make the difference when dealing with these situations based on the environment and the context. But in general if you go and say: Yeah, he is awful – what are you trying to achieve – revolt? Negativity of such kind rarely lead to any productive outcome. Instead, as it was comprehensively covered, respect the chain of command, send feedback up the right way and let the team know that you are aware. That's enough for most average intelligent people.
    Eventually, logic prevails.

  46. I hope the service guys listen to yall. I wish I would have had y'all to listen to because that other way really is a killer to motivation. I motion for a mandatory Jocko/Echo power point hour a day for all services. Thank you MEN. God Bless.
    Q

  47. Dealing with this thing right now. I attempt this tactic as described. Difficult. As the boys are quick to call the perceived defender of the bad leader as a sellout and part of the problem. That's THEIR tactic.

  48. This is great advice that everyone who supervises someone should take to heart. Its easy to fall in line with either your boss or subordinates but neither will get you the best results. If you're a "yes man" you lose the respect of your subordinates and they won't give you their all and if you just shit on your boss's plan you're subordinates may support you but not the plan and will once again not give it their all.

  49. Ah yes, the question every NCO asks himself every god damn day…
    Don't, it's all about interpreting dumb ass orders from dumb ass officers in a creative way to actually get your boys to do the thing they're supposed to.

  50. Wolves constantly challenge each-other in order to insure the strongest, smartest person is always the leader. This problem can technically be resolved via challenge bad leadership in a constructive manner and never cover up for incompetence…..I'm thinking of going off to live with wolves btw. I know just where to find them. 😛

  51. As do ALL animals, btw. All living beings in fact. Therefore it is against nature not to challenge dumbness in all its forms. Just saying.

  52. Example: we are completely understaffed, and boss decides to have a meltdown and send the staff which is available to clean and neglect clients…..next day, long speech about how we failed as a team. Hard to explain that. There's zero benefit. It would be like, we're under attack….so, lets go knit. Non-sensical.

  53. "Funnier" example: you think "hey, maybe I should join the military", go to one of those info sessions and meet ppl actually IN the military who are not sure if going to war would be ethical if they ever need to do it. …. Why are they there? Also, someone attacks you, you're telling me you think its unethical to defend yourself?? O_o……finally: why are you in the military?! and how did you pass the test when you're clearly obese??? O_O''….some things defy logic. And gravity, apparently. Under what possibly conditions can you possibly think there's moral equivalency between terrorists and ppl trying to defend themselves? Did you eat your last brain cell for brunch??! Don't know how to defend that, or follow it. Or explain it. It takes all my effort to just not say what I think.
    Be polite, avoid in future….attempt to move in with the wolves. Do NOT say what you are thinking. Problem is, I'm pretty sure I am now officially an iceberg of communication, 90% – "do not say that out loud".

  54. What if your boss is a terrible leader who is your own brother who robbed you and your other brother of your fair share of company money?

  55. When I was in the NY Army National Guard all of the leadership (Officers/NCO's) were weak. I was reading the Dichotomy of leadership and as I was reading it the words already in my mind were being told to me again by you. I was so enraged and disgusted by the weakness of my leadership I actually stopped reading the book beacause none of the leadership were executing any of the positive qualitites described in your book, but they were doing all of the negative qualities. I even reccommended The Dichotomy of Leadership to my Company Commander in a survey along with everyone else in our company. I was a PV2. I was so lost in the fog of negativity shrouding my personal life in addition to my lack of understanding how the Army even worked (because noone explained it to me or even attempted to) that I chose to leave the Army instead of staying in. I joined the Army to become a stronger version of myself which I understand is selfish, but we all are to some degree. However, after thinking about the matter extensively, I couldn't see a good enough reason to stay in the Army.

  56. I chose to leave when a bad boss was consistently driving the organization to ruin. Not in the middle of a project and not without trying to reason with the boss. Stepping away in a responsible manner has to be an option … except in the military, of course. But even there, people can refuse an unlawful order. Degrees of difficulty.

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